Do you think they will extend the lockdown or stick with 21st June As Freedom day?

[ihatebindweed]

I hope they don't extend, because it moves the goalposts and then could lead to another extension. As it optional to go to certain places like clubs, when they open, then people vaccinated or not can make their choice.

I sadly think they will extend it and ruin my party planned for the end of June.

@Unsure33 I would be interested in understanding how many died from/with COVID-19.

@Unsure33

A slightly worrying figure is 29% of those who have died with new variants had had 2 jabs

The bit that is missing is how soon after second jab , their age did they have other illnesses as well.

We are lucky to have stats but the details are important.

I think they might just slow down on the last bits of opening up

But how old were they? A frail over 80 year old dying from covid despite being vaccinated isn’t the same as an otherwise healthy 40 year old dying from it despite being vaccinated.

@Unsure33

A slightly worrying figure is 29% of those who have died with new variants had had 2 jabs

The bit that is missing is how soon after second jab , their age did they have other illnesses as well.

We are lucky to have stats but the details are important.

I think they might just slow down on the last bits of opening up

I think the important part there is their age and health. Unfortunately, a 90 year old who is double jabbed will still be at some risk due to their age. Most people who have been double jabbed are the most vulnerable people and no vaccine is 100% effective. Not many healthy people under 50 have had 2 vaccines yet unless they work in healthcare.

Probably a dense question but why will June 21st being delayed mean proms are cancelled? I thought schools still had bubbles so these would carry on?

Ours are half year bubbles

Both mine are full year bubbles, so should these still be on then?

It's only worrying if you believed that vaccination = immunity.

It's a reduction of risk. Vaccinated people can still contract and transmit. Age and co- morbidity are still a risk. How much of an risk is unknown with new variants.

The risk is that the vaccinated falsely believe that they are immune, can't contract and can't transit and therefore engage in behaviours that put themselves and others at risk at a particular point.

If rates are really low (I mean a handful), outbreaks are contained and there is no exponential growth - fill your boots.

If reporting is that rates are low in comparison to the last peak and there is obvious exponential growth - this is a huge red flag. It might be what you want to hear but you would be irrational to ignore it however inconvenient the truth.

DD left school before half term after a whole year group social event - in school grounds, in a marquee with sides open, no alcohol served, within school hours. All staff and serving staff wore PPE (because they cross bubbles), students did not. That was allowable within the guidelines currently in place.

I think that large scale social events OFF school grounds are more problematic for a variety of reasons, including the fact that others - serving staff, venue staff, transport staff etc - are involved, and the venue will have legally enforced Covid-safe measures that can't necessarily be abandoned just because it is a school-related party.

Aside but when did proms become a thing? I'm obviously too old to get it but I remember watching Pretty in Pink in the 80s and not relating because proms were obviously a US thing. I was not scarred but maybe that's because it wasn't a thing?

The uni ball was a different ball game and it was very uncool to attend and swop your DMs and 501s for a dress and high heels and suck up to the rugby club. Especially if they had told you to 'go back to Russia' whilst you were selling Socialist Worker!

@Unsure33

A slightly worrying figure is 29% of those who have died with new variants had had 2 jabs

The bit that is missing is how soon after second jab , their age did they have other illnesses as well.

We are lucky to have stats but the details are important.

I think they might just slow down on the last bits of opening up

12 out of 42 deaths

So a small number of a small number

And if they’ve been double jabbed it means they were already old and / or vulnerable

Thanks! I’m 42 and double jabbed. I have 2 young children, 2 elderly parents to care for and a job. Nice to know it doesn’t matter if I die because I’m vulnerable. Maybe people who aren’t vulnerable should stop being so selfish and put up with the restrictions a bit longer so us vulnerable people have a chance.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

Thanks! I’m 42 and double jabbed. I have 2 young children, 2 elderly parents to care for and a job. Nice to know it doesn’t matter if I die because I’m vulnerable. Maybe people who aren’t vulnerable should stop being so selfish and put up with the restrictions a bit longer so us vulnerable people have a chance.

For goodness sake I’m sure the PP did not mean it doesn’t matter if you die because you are vulnerable! This seems to be the standard response now whenever anyone mentions that someone has died from Covid because they had additional health issues. It is not being selfish or uncaring. People have put their lives on hold for well over a year. By now all the elderly and vulnerable should have been offered the full protection of 2 jabs plus the necessary time for antibodies to form. Unfortunately the vaccine isn’t 100% effective and people will still die, but it’s the best weapon we have.

My theory is they are now frightened of the NHS backlog caused by the lockdowns. So they dont want anyone taking up an NHS bed for any reason if possible. So the continuation of restrictions is to deal with the backlog caused by restrictions. Because the backlog PLUS Covid patients just cant be done. So they are panicking that cases equal hospitilisations.

Thanks!I’m 42 and double jabbed. I have 2 young children, 2 elderly parents to care for and a job. Nice to know it doesn’t matter if I die because I’m vulnerable. Maybe people who aren’t vulnerable should stop being so selfish and put up with the restrictions a bit longer so us vulnerable people have a chance

I'm so sorry you are vulnerable and worried but people are suicidal, living with DV, , loss of jobs, homes, income, children living with neglect where there are less safeguards. These people have been protecting you for the last 15 months at the expense of their own mental health and you are now calling them selfish. Do you really believe that people who have given up on an awful lot are selfish because they can't do it any longer?

I've followed all the rules, done all the things.

But enough now. The impact on so many areas inc people's mental health is so massive that I think we need to go ahead. Govt should have limited people coming in from India weeks ago but of course they didn't. So Jo and Joe Bloggs pay the price

And I definitely think we should go ahead with anything outdoors, transmission is much, much lower.

I've had enough now

Thanks! confused I’m 42 and double jabbed. I have 2 young children, 2 elderly parents to care for and a job. Nice to know it doesn’t matter if I die because I’m vulnerable. Maybe people who aren’t vulnerable should stop being so selfish and put up with the restrictions a bit longer so us vulnerable people have a chance.

How dare you call people who want to get their lives back selfish! You've had your vaccinations. Yes it's crap being vulnerable - my mum is - she shields every winter anyway so she's been sheilding since October 2019. But she realises we can't go on like this.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

Thanks! I’m 42 and double jabbed. I have 2 young children, 2 elderly parents to care for and a job. Nice to know it doesn’t matter if I die because I’m vulnerable. Maybe people who aren’t vulnerable should stop being so selfish and put up with the restrictions a bit longer so us vulnerable people have a chance.

You have had a chance. The entire country has put their lives on hold for you. Children haven’t been educated for 1/2 a year. Countless people have lost their jobs / businesses and in some cases homes. You have been too of the queue for double jab. You have had a chance and there are others in this country too suffering in different ways.

@MercyBooth

My theory is they are now frightened of the NHS backlog caused by the lockdowns. So they dont want anyone taking up an NHS bed for any reason if possible. So the continuation of restrictions is to deal with the backlog caused by restrictions. Because the backlog PLUS Covid patients just cant be done. So they are panicking that cases equal hospitilisations.

You know what, if this is the case then I would rather they were just honest about it.

At the moment I have absolutely no idea what the aim is. Why we are doing what we are doing. There is plenty of speculation.

Just a little bit of honesty. transparency, and clarity would be great.

At the moment the conspiracy theorist are starting to look like they might actually be on to something, which is scary.

I rest my case.

The Telegraph
@Telegraph
Police cars revolving lightSyringe Dominic Raab has suggested that remaining Covid-19 restrictions will only be lifted once all adults are double-vaccinated

as suggested that remaining Covid-19 restrictions will only be lifted once all adults are double-vaccinated

So August/September then. They're on the 25-29 first jabs I think so by the time the 18YO get their second jab must be over 8 weeks away.

@MercyBooth

My theory is they are now frightened of the NHS backlog caused by the lockdowns. So they dont want anyone taking up an NHS bed for any reason if possible. So the continuation of restrictions is to deal with the backlog caused by restrictions. Because the backlog PLUS Covid patients just cant be done. So they are panicking that cases equal hospitilisations.

Of course they are. We pointed this out on here last autumn, that the best way to catch up and not get further behind was to keep cases low so we didn't end up with people in hospital, staff sick and self isolating and having to keep converting wards into red wards. We didn't learn it then. I'm not sure we've learnt it now, although we might just be hoping that vaccines have broken the link, rather than delayed it rather than deliberately just ploughing ahead making mistakes we've made twice before.

If you want to get healthcare back on track then you need to act before the cases turn into admissions. It's not the restrictions that cause the backlog.
MN seems to want several things at once that are mutually exclusive

1. no restrictions and life back to normal even if cases are rising, as long as the cases and admissions aren't turning into deaths 2)routine 'non-emergency procedures happening as normal, + a bit extra for clearing of some of the backlog. 3)people not catching covid (an aerosol spread disease) from other patients or visitors while they are in hospital for the above.

I'm not sure there's any need for us to have got into this situation again, but we seem to be trying to run things 'hot' again rather than using 1 shortish lockdown to get cases right down and then using test, trace & isolate to keep on top of them. Maybe we just have to hope for 3rd time lucky rather than ending up with a July/Aug roadmap reversal.

@SoSadAboutMyDad

Thanks! I’m 42 and double jabbed. I have 2 young children, 2 elderly parents to care for and a job. Nice to know it doesn’t matter if I die because I’m vulnerable. Maybe people who aren’t vulnerable should stop being so selfish and put up with the restrictions a bit longer so us vulnerable people have a chance.

How much is a bit longer in your time scale? Another year ? Are you calling selfish to those that have lost their jobs? Are you calling selfish to those that have lost their houses ? Are you calling selfish to those kids that have lost a year of their education? Are you calling selfish to those that have lost a love one because something that wasn’t COVID ? Are you calling selfish to those that haven’t seen their family members because they live abroad? Are you calling selfish to those that have had the vaccine despite COVID wouldn’t affect them but they’ve had it mainly to protect people like you?

Tell me who you’re calling selfish.

I can't see any of the remaining restrictions being lifted until at least 2022

it's hugely depressing

@MercyBooth

I rest my case.

The Telegraph
@Telegraph
Police cars revolving lightSyringe Dominic Raab has suggested that remaining Covid-19 restrictions will only be lifted once all adults are double-vaccinated

So at the current rate September/ October ish (depending on when they start vaccinating 18-24 year olds)?

So, that will probably take us right to the start of flu season and also when they are planning on dishing out Flu and booster Covid vaccines. Are they really going to want to relax restrictions then, we’ll be back to protecting the vulnerable.

We also need to be careful because winter is tough for the NHS in ‘normal’ times. So, back to protecting the NHS.

So we may get back to normal next March/ April - depending on variants.

So my suspicions/ fear that this year is a complete right off wasn’t far wrong.

The thing is, if they ever have the balls to actually admit all this at an official press conference, I wouldn’t mind.

However, they won’t. Even if this is/ has been the plan all along, they will never actually admit it.

Instead it’s all carrot and stick with them.

@MercyBooth

My theory is they are now frightened of the NHS backlog caused by the lockdowns. So they dont want anyone taking up an NHS bed for any reason if possible. So the continuation of restrictions is to deal with the backlog caused by restrictions. Because the backlog PLUS Covid patients just cant be done. So they are panicking that cases equal hospitilisations.

This was all over the news at the end of May after Chris Hopson made his statement about the NHS backlog eg www.google.com/amp/s/inews.co.uk/news/health/fresh-questions-21-june-reopening-hospitals-non-covid-backlog-1027015/amp I was in hospital a couple of weeks ago, as an emergency admission and staff were saying that as they had had to convert theatres into Covid wards at the peak, they were trying to catch up with operations, struggling for beds (I was lucky to get a bed after a 15 hour wait) and concerned about heading into the Winter.