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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
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noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 18:06

are the school LF tests not worth doing then?

They do appear to have picked up some cases that would have otherwise been missed so not entirely useless.

Why would PCR be better

They are more sensitive.

could they also be done at home.

You can get them through the post as a one-off if you have symptoms. Mobile testing units would be more useful if you wanted to test a school population in the event of cases. I’ve seen stories of them being sent to schools since March which definitely wasn’t happening before, so that’s good.

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Getawaywithit · 04/06/2021 18:08

I'm not convinced that they will decide to vaccinate children - that would mean having to admit that covid spreads rapidly in schools and that they aren't safe

But there are most certainly children classed as 'vulnerable' in schools. Vulnerable kids need educating too. They also have the same mental health issues when isolated like the rest of us. So for the sake of those children, for them to be able to confidently go to school every day and not feel scared and for their families not to feel like they're playing at the Hunger Games every day, there is a need to vaccinate children in secondary schools as soon as possible but certainly before next winter.

colouringcrayons · 04/06/2021 18:08

[quote Neverendingstory356]@SonnetForSpring

The collective denial is the strangest piece! I don't understand how it makes anyone feel better to walk around pretending everything is fine for months and then be hit with the news of mass deaths, lockdown, etc as a surprise. Surely it is best to know what we know and plan/prepare/mitigate risks ahead of time.

Denial though is a real psychological defense mechanism -- and one it seems may are relying on to get them through this.[/quote]
Denial and its close relative minimisation have been amazing during this.

So many people unable to deal with covid.. Not sure if it is due to the far higher rates of mental health problems in society generally, but it has been really noticeable at each bit of difficult or concerning news the vehemence that people screech there is nothing to worry about. I don't think during WW2 they got through by pretending it as nothing to worry about!

TheHoneyBadger · 04/06/2021 18:09

As to the topic - no cases thus far at my school but there have been school closures due to outbreaks of new variant in two neighbouring counties. That's how it was back in September also where it felt like it didn't effect us and then suddenly come October it was in and we started to have bubbles popping.

As a teacher I really, really (though I'm sure the opposite will be claimed) don't want schools to close. My life is much easier with schools open both as a teacher and as a parent and I much prefer teaching in school than remote. I would therefore prefer we thought proactively of ways to maximise the chances of school's staying fully open and learn lessons from hotspot areas of the country and act ahead of time to protect our own communities.

I'd rather not wait and until it's a problem across the whole country before acting Hmm Seriously wtf? Learning and implementing lessons to prevent problems is surely the gold standard here? You don't wait to see if the proverbial horse bolts, you shut the door in case.

Notonthestairs · 04/06/2021 18:09

Thanks @noblegiraffe

Neverendingstory356 · 04/06/2021 18:09

@Scrambledcustard

"We really can not complain about the poor provisions but then still campaign to close them again. "

Absolutely no one is campaigning to close the schools. Everyone I've ever heard voice concerns about safety in schools just want measures in place to reduce the risks of COVID spreading in schools.

If we put measures in place to make schools safe, we wouldn't ever need to close them.

itsgettingwierd · 04/06/2021 18:12

Nightclubs are unsafe to open. They may be unsafe still on 21st June.

But schools have been safe throughout.

Anyone have any knowledge I don't about how the 2 places are dissimilar?

Same with cinemas and theatres etc

roguetomato · 04/06/2021 18:13

We are still testing twice a week, and still wearing masks in classroom in my dc's school. Hopefully the children get vaccinated soon and school won't be disrupted too much. At least we had no SI since last Sept, hopefully it will be that way until the end of this.

Sunnyfreezesushi · 04/06/2021 18:15

My suggestion would be a) surge vaccinate all teachers over the summer period (flexible bookings as some will be on holiday) - not Ok that some young teachers will not have been vaccinated fully before September b) encourage all school children to test before schools restart in September - I would be happy to take my children to a local testing unit, no problem. This is what independent schools did last year, the testing at least.

Summer hols will be both a natural break but also lots of mixing, we really do need to get it right before the autumn term. Also masks in the autumn term in classrooms if rates above a certain level. Would welcome a lot more transparency and planning in this regard. As soon as rates go up, there should be pandemic planning procedures that kick in for schools and extra funding. It is a no brainer really.

Iggi999 · 04/06/2021 18:16

@itsgettingwierd

Nightclubs are unsafe to open. They may be unsafe still on 21st June.

But schools have been safe throughout.

Anyone have any knowledge I don't about how the 2 places are dissimilar?

Same with cinemas and theatres etc

There's less snogging and fighting in nightclubs, that's one difference
Scrambledcustard · 04/06/2021 18:19

don't think during WW2 they got through by pretending it as nothing to worry about!

I think they just carried on with life tbh. What choice did they have? And there is a difference between being in denial and being pragmatic. we literally can not hide away every few months when a new variant comes.

EvilPea · 04/06/2021 18:20

Doesn’t surprise me. Look physically at secondary kids they are adults. Why would the virus differentiate.
I wonder if testing at school again would help.

I would be interested to see a breakdown of age and gender in those most affected.

Scrambledcustard · 04/06/2021 18:21

[quote Neverendingstory356]@Scrambledcustard

"We really can not complain about the poor provisions but then still campaign to close them again. "

Absolutely no one is campaigning to close the schools. Everyone I've ever heard voice concerns about safety in schools just want measures in place to reduce the risks of COVID spreading in schools.

If we put measures in place to make schools safe, we wouldn't ever need to close them.[/quote]
Yet they were closed. For the best part of a year.

TheHoneyBadger · 04/06/2021 18:21

The bouncers can kick you out in a nightclub if attack the staff but in a school they can't?

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 18:21

Yet they were closed. For the best part of a year.

Technically about 6 months in total and not closed to all in most cases.

DancesWithDaffodils · 04/06/2021 18:21

I know there were issues with border areas, but we absolutly need to go back to tiers, or a more regional restriction policy.
The rates round me are FINALLY falling (ok, for about 2 months). We were dumped into lockdown in October FAR too late, and have been struggling ever since.
We absolutely dont need further restrictions right now, it the kids to miss out on more schooling.
However, that is not the case in other pockets of the country. Where rates are rising, especially if it is a new variant, then need a (short) sharp lockdown to try and prevent a repeat of the Kent variant spread pattern seems prudent.

We also need to stop this stupid "X country will be moving to a worse list in 4 days" and give people plenty of time to get home without quarantine requirements happening. If we are concerned about a location, it should be announced and implemented. If Portugal is a concern, requiring quarantine for those returning after schools go back following halfterm is asking for school spread.

FWIW, 2/3 of our team at school is entitled to a vaccination, but only half of us have actually managed to secure an appointment. Noone has had a second jab yet.

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 18:24

Yet they were closed. For the best part of a year.

... because measures weren’t put in place to make them safe. The government really fucked up Sept-Dec.

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Barbie222 · 04/06/2021 18:25

Yet they were closed. For the best part of a year

Let's try not to let that happen again.

lonelyplanet · 04/06/2021 18:26

schoolsweek.co.uk/school-covid-outbreaks-indian-variant-delta-cases-spread/

"Covid outbreaks in schools have reached their highest level since December as the Indian variant continues to spread, official figures show."

Dr Jenny Harries - as useful as ever - urged the public to “exercise as much caution as possible”.

Iggi999 · 04/06/2021 18:31

What is the "best part" of a year? I would assume a good majority of the year, ie 9 months+ ? They weren't even closed for 6 months where my dc attend.

Temp023 · 04/06/2021 18:31

Yep, absolutely relying on denial, that’s me!

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 04/06/2021 18:32

But schools have been safe throughout.

For who? Staff? No. Vulnerable children? No. Some non vulnerable children? Maybe. Parents of children? Maybe.

Iggi999 · 04/06/2021 18:33

I doubt ( and really hope they don't) they will close again. Remember, it was always about protecting the NHS and since the over 40s have been done now they should be ok. We may just have to live with this.
What does "done" mean? I would not say vaccinations are done until both doses are received. That doesn't apply to the over 40s (or many of the over 50s, including myself)

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 18:34

Dr Jenny Harries - as useful as ever - urged the public to “exercise as much caution as possible”.

Bit late now Jenny when you spent all last year convincing people transmission didn’t happen between staff and pupils in schools abs that schools were safe.

Getawaywithit · 04/06/2021 18:34

Yet they were closed. For the best part of a year

Schools never closed. They were always open for key worker children.

The best part of a year is not even close. 12 weeks last year (14 for some, depending on where the school placed the Easter holidays), 8 weeks this year. That's 20 weeks, 22 at most. Not even 6 months.

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