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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
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13
CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 17:26

@Delatron

I also don’t understand the point of the post.
That much is clear.
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 04/06/2021 17:26

Thank you NG for the figures. I hope masks are bought back ASAP and they go back to remote learning more quicker this time if it becomes a concern.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 04/06/2021 17:28

Ok so we are worrying about something that may not cause an issue.

Looking at the history of how this has gone over the last year, would it not be prudent to consider that there might be an issue? For the sake of 4 weeks not being able to go to a nightclub?

dapsnotplimsolls · 04/06/2021 17:29

I'm not convinced that they will decide to vaccinate children - that would mean having to admit that covid spreads rapidly in schools and that they aren't safe.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 04/06/2021 17:30

on the “promise” that we would get some freedom back, like not having to self isolate etc. However, government have not delivered on that, you still have to self isolate, won’t be able to travel abroad without quarantining. So I simply think you cannot big up the vaccine and get everyone’s buy in and then not deliver

I totally agree with anyone getting pissed off about this. We all know that Johnson isn't going to do anything about extending the date to do whatever else needs doing, because of this too.

GabsAlot · 04/06/2021 17:30

masks shouldnt have been abandoned so soon that was a mistake-my nephew stil wears one his choice but alot dont bother

Notonthestairs · 04/06/2021 17:30

@KatherineOfGaunt
I don't understand why they wouldn't prioritise SEN staff getting vaccinated - many of the children in those schools have medical vulnerabilities. My daughter is one of them. And vaccination won't be an easy choice for the older children.

And given how few SN places there are in my area (DD has had a 2 year wait) there will be many vulnerable children in stuck mainstream.

In DS's secondary (7 form intake) all the outbreaks have been with Year 10 upwards. So I can see that Yr 11 & 13 out will help.

Thanks for the info Noble.

CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 17:32

"I hope masks are bought back ASAP and they go back to remote learning more quicker this time if it becomes a concern."

Noooo! Please God, no. I absolutely do NOT want remote learning and schools partially closed again. I don't know any teachers who do, either (contrary to what some here on MN persist in alleging), but surely the thing to do is put the mitigations back in force NOW, before it gets anywhere near that stage.

DancesWithTortoises · 04/06/2021 17:32

@Regulus

I can not stomach the desire towards censorship from some posters.

Thank you NG for posting, it may not be palatable but pretending it's not happening is never useful.

Yet here are the usual suspects doing just that - do they never tire of their ignorance?
strangeshapedpotato · 04/06/2021 17:36

@Delatron

But we don’t know the Delta variant spreading in schools will lead to lots of deaths do we?

Of course cases will rose amongst the unvaccinated as we come out of lockdown. That was expected.

Actually we do.

By "we" of course, I mean those of us with an understanding of the science involved here.

The simple fact is that among the most vulnerable, vaccines have very little effect. They ARE extremely vulnerable precisely because their immune system is impaired. Efficacies of between 0 and 20% have been observed in immuno-compromised individuals.

A third wave, which is what we clearly now have, if allowed to grow will eventually kill many of these people whether vaccinated or not.

Lockdowns previously stopped the outbreak from reaching its full potential. We've only ever faced very limited number of infected people. In some areas of Brazil they had 70%+ infected in the first wave. We had fewer than 10%, with probably another 10% in the second wave. Even with vaccines if we hit 70% infected in this next wave, we're going to have some very serious problems....

So the question is, is your "solution" to keep your head in the sand and pretend there's no problem and then when our hospitals are overflowing, claim there's no way we could have "foreseen" this?

Temp023 · 04/06/2021 17:36

I honestly don’t give a shiny shit anymore about any of this, I’m done.

CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 17:47

@Temp023

I honestly don’t give a shiny shit anymore about any of this, I’m done.
Thank you for your contribution.
thecatfromjapan · 04/06/2021 17:47

I don't understand why we're not trying to contain this.

We know that more virus = greater chance of mutations. And greater number of mutations = increased risk we'll get a mutation that undermines the vaccination drive.

I don't understand why, after over a year of this, we still aren't following a policy of acting firmly and acting fast.

It's all - still - licking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

It's bizarre.

motherrunner · 04/06/2021 17:47

@Temp023

I honestly don’t give a shiny shit anymore about any of this, I’m done.
Parent or teacher @Temp023? Could you expand on your comment?
Chasanddive · 04/06/2021 17:47

All the kids at my sons school both primary 6 classes plus their siblings, so approximately 80 kids got sent home today to isolate. Totally pissed of as I have got to take unpaid leave. When will it end? I’m so pissed off

CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 17:49

"Licking" the stable door, @thecatfromjapan?
Grin

May as well be...

strangeshapedpotato · 04/06/2021 17:50

@thecatfromjapan

I don't understand why we're not trying to contain this.

We know that more virus = greater chance of mutations. And greater number of mutations = increased risk we'll get a mutation that undermines the vaccination drive.

I don't understand why, after over a year of this, we still aren't following a policy of acting firmly and acting fast.

It's all - still - licking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

It's bizarre.

@thecatfromjapan

We're led by a government chosen for their total belief in Brexit.

It's absolutely NOT bizarre at all that they haven't a fucking clue what they're doing.

SonnetForSpring · 04/06/2021 17:52

@thecatfromjapan

I don't understand why we're not trying to contain this.

We know that more virus = greater chance of mutations. And greater number of mutations = increased risk we'll get a mutation that undermines the vaccination drive.

I don't understand why, after over a year of this, we still aren't following a policy of acting firmly and acting fast.

It's all - still - licking the stable door after the horse has bolted.

It's bizarre.

Isn't it. So unbelievably frustrating.
SonnetForSpring · 04/06/2021 17:54

And the collective denial is scary too. We all.have to work together and at the moment everything is very disjointed. It's going to take a long time to get a handle.on covid because of this.

colouringcrayons · 04/06/2021 17:57

This is a mess again.

I can see why some foolish people want to pretend it is over, or say 'I'm done' etc. because it is really frustrating.

Right from the start we have only had two options - suppress covid or allow it to rise. Suppressing it does NOT need lockdown unless you have ignored it for too long. But leaving it to just rise is not an option, as we have seen it can mutate to escape the vaccine and then we are all fucked again.

Plus covid is not nice for children. Plenty have longlasting symptoms. I don't understand why so many parents seem unconcerned about their children catching this. It is something I would prefer my children to avoid if possible - even though we have had it once - it will reinfect in due course.

We can't allow covid to circulate widely in schools, so we either find a way to get better measures in schools or we are stuck with isolation, testing and stress for the foreseeable future.

42isthemeaning · 04/06/2021 17:57

I knew the minute they said they were removing masks in classrooms that kids would have even more reason to stop testing. I suspected they weren't really still doing the tests anyway. This was confirmed when we tried to hand out their packs on the last day of the half term. "Miss, we don't need these. We've got loads at home and we don't bother doing them anymore." Sad

Notonthestairs · 04/06/2021 18:01

Quick question, slightly off topic - are the school LF tests not worth doing then? Why would PCR be better and could they also be done at home.

DS tests 2x a week and I test when seeing relatives- just wondering whether we've been kidding ourselves.

TheHoneyBadger · 04/06/2021 18:02

We absolutely do know that things spread like wildfire through schools.

Despite a year of gaslighting it remains absolute common sense that overcrowded, poorly ventilated spaces inhabited by a population traveling on public transport from a wide radius without masks or social distancing is perfect conditions for spreading virus'.

What mad world are we in where people think that isn't a given? Have people really been so easily brainwashed out of common sense? Or is it wishful thinking?

Imagine someone suggesting a couple of years ago that schools were free from virus' ? It runs counter to everything we know and have experienced as parents.

Neverendingstory356 · 04/06/2021 18:04

@SonnetForSpring

The collective denial is the strangest piece! I don't understand how it makes anyone feel better to walk around pretending everything is fine for months and then be hit with the news of mass deaths, lockdown, etc as a surprise. Surely it is best to know what we know and plan/prepare/mitigate risks ahead of time.

Denial though is a real psychological defense mechanism -- and one it seems may are relying on to get them through this.

Scrambledcustard · 04/06/2021 18:05

I doubt ( and really hope they don't) they will close again. Remember, it was always about protecting the NHS and since the over 40s have been done now they should be ok. We may just have to live with this.

We really can not complain about the poor provisions but then still campaign to close them again. If there is any school closure is should be done on a individual school basis only not a blanket closure again.

People are only just starting to scrape their lives back together, so many women lost or had to give their jobs up last time, effecting their family stability massively. Its not fair on the kids or their families if this happens again.

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