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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
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13
btwwhichonespink · 04/06/2021 16:35

@Seriously79

Don't you think it's a bit suspicious that 'school cases are rising' just when they have released info of a new vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds 🤔
Exactly @Seriously79

It's actually laughable now.

RedcurrantPuff · 04/06/2021 16:35

Have a look at some latest reports. There has been a rise in the number of children admitted to hospital in Scotland - all presenting with delta variant.

But yet only yesterday the Scottish clinical director said there was no cause for alarm. The figures also include children admitted for something else and who test positive for Covid in hospital.

mumsneedwine · 04/06/2021 16:36

And no one wants schools to close. We want them to be safer. Masks, vaccines, ventilation, some attempt at space. The same as every other workplace. It's really not hard to understand is it ?

CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 16:36

@btwwhichonespink. Why would moderation be needed on a thread like this, unless you feel that free speech and discussion shouldn't be allowed?
Which would be pretty weird on a discussion forum. No one has broken any guidelines.

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:36

This thread is the gift that keeps on giving regarding daft posts Grin

Poster 1: but why are you so worried if teachers are vaccinated?

Poster 2: Not all teachers are vaccinated fully.

Poster 3: We need to talk about what safety measures would help those schools at risk from the Delta Variant to stop them closing.

Poster 4: Why do you want all schools closing?

Poster 5: We don’t. We’d like to make schools safer so the my don’t.

Poster 6: Why would we want teachers prioritised for vaccinations?

You couldn’t make it up.

mumsneedwine · 04/06/2021 16:36

@Delatron out of 200 staff at my school over 80 are still too young to have had one vaccine. What should they do ?

RedcurrantPuff · 04/06/2021 16:37

@Seriously79

Don't you think it's a bit suspicious that 'school cases are rising' just when they have released info of a new vaccine for 12 to 15 year olds 🤔
Yep

Same way a new variant of concern appears every time more things are due to open

I think the government and media think our heads button up the back

Pickle2828 · 04/06/2021 16:38

As a 29 year old teacher (and mum of two) who works in a bubble with 120 children I find this very worrying. (Dons hard hat for teacher basher) I worked in school in the lockdown and don't begrudge that in any way, I was happy to be there for the children who needed to be in school at that time, despite the risk. However It seems unfair that other frontline workers have been eligible for the vaccine for months but teachers have not been offered it. It feels like certain groups of people have been thrown under the bus time and time again and other groups are prioritised (perhaps more than I's reasonable but that's another matter). It makes me feel like me and my children do not matter

mumsneedwine · 04/06/2021 16:38

@btwwhichonespink who she is is a committed teacher who has only ever wanted the best for students and staff. Thank god people like her exist.
@noblegiraffe thanks for highlighting that once again schools are covid breeding grounds. It's like they want us all to leave 🤷‍♀️

itsgettingwierd · 04/06/2021 16:39

@Delatron

Most vulnerable adults will have had two doses by now. How are hospitalisations looking? I guess we’ll see over the next few weeks. Maybe panic then. Not sure what these threads hope to achieve to be honest.
It's a bit late to "panic" in a few weeks if and when it's taken hold. Has the past year taught you nothing?

You need to act straightaway with mitigation measures. Something the government refuses to fund.

They refused to fund the money needed for catch up after employing someone to find out what was needed.

They think by increasing funding to nearly the same levels we had back in 2009 before they cut it is enough.

That's ignoring inflation before the reality.

You can ignore the truth and you can deliberately misread and misinterpret what's being said here.

But that won't change the truth. And I'm sorry the truth scares you and that's causing your extreme reaction.

btwwhichonespink · 04/06/2021 16:40

[quote CallmeHendricks]@btwwhichonespink. Why would moderation be needed on a thread like this, unless you feel that free speech and discussion shouldn't be allowed?
Which would be pretty weird on a discussion forum. No one has broken any guidelines.[/quote]
Not specifically this thread regarding moderation - it is a general problem on this topic.

I just wanted to post on noble's school thread as she sets one up every few months to say the government are hiding school spread figures, everyone's dying in schools and all she wants is everyone to be safe, not schools to close (which is what she really wants).

Appuskidu · 04/06/2021 16:42

(which is what she really wants)

And your evidence for that is...?

SuperstoreFan · 04/06/2021 16:43

Fucking hell why are so many posters so crap at reading the OP?

Sunnyfreezesushi · 04/06/2021 16:43

The other point of course is that India’s schools have been closed since March 2020 so there is no schools data coming out of the place the Delta variant emerged from and has raged in.
However, it is safe to say that schools in India did not cause the Delta variant.

btwwhichonespink · 04/06/2021 16:43

@SuperstoreFan

Fucking hell why are so many posters so crap at reading the OP?
We can read it, don't worry.
CallmeHendricks · 04/06/2021 16:44

@Delatron, I see that your unpleasant post was deleted even before I reported it, but in answer to your point, because school children and many staff members HAVE NOT been vaccinated.
Why can you not accept that?

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 16:45

One day we will find out who she really is.

Like, someone famous? Confused

OP posts:
RocioMartinez · 04/06/2021 16:45

I was just reading this (yes, it's in the Guardian but still relevant)

I think people (ie. secondary school kids), have become quite complacent with testing - I know we have - and that is fuelling a rise in asymptomatic kids going into school.

Interesting that this article focuses on primary school kids though.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/04/covid-outbreak-at-my-childrens-school-makes-me-fear-were-complacent

mumsneedwine · 04/06/2021 16:45

@btwwhichonespink wow now that's some extrapolation from what was actually said. No one wants schools closed. No one. Zilch. Nada. What staff have been asking for is to be kept as safe as they can be. Vaccines would have done that. But no, we are told to stop being lazy moaners and just go risk our lives and health in conditions that no one else is being asked to put up with.
On Monday I will once again be in 6 rooms with 30 different students each time. All packed in, no masks and windows that don't open in several rooms. All we've ever asked if for masks and some attempt at social distancing.
Friday last week was resignation day. Let's just say it was carnage at our school. If you want any teachers left next year I would suggest supporting them now - or you're going to have your children taught maths by a stream of supply.

ChloeDecker · 04/06/2021 16:48

I just wanted to post on noble's school thread as she sets one up every few months to say the government are hiding school spread figures
Which is true:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/covid-schools-government-legal-challenge-b1856670.html

www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1408

everyone's dying in schools

Not been said at all but some people have died from catching Covid in schools.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beloved-teacher-no-health-issues-23363331

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/neu-claims-150-school-staff-19558715

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-52248927

and all she wants is everyone to be safe

Don’t you?

not schools to close
Which is true

which is what she really wants
Evidence?

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 16:48

all she wants is everyone to be safe, not schools to close (which is what she really wants).

God no, remote teaching was awful, I actually enjoy being in the classroom with the kids.

Which is why it was so pissing annoying that the govt mismanaged the situation so badly from Sept-Dec that schools ended up having to close.

OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 04/06/2021 16:52

There's approx 6.5k cases today.

Almost double what it was 4 days ago.

What percentage of those are school age?

Schools return next week and many kids will have been to Portugal and not has to isolate. (Although I believe you have to PCR test?)

My area is still quite low. 10-20 cases a week in pop of 120k.

But the heat map is very clear that is the 10-19 age group.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 04/06/2021 16:52

Looking in from the outside the UK approach to Covid in schools continues to be bizarre.

Where I am we:

  • focused on vaccinating teachers so that if there is any Covid in the school they don't have to quarantine.
  • reopened the schools to all students but required they wear masks and distance 3 feet.
  • introduced immediate rapid Covid testing for any student with symptoms so that they could return to class.
  • improved ventilation, and introduced some outdoor classrooms.

Our Covid rates in schools continue to fall, despite the fact that increasingly they are moving from hybrid to fully on-site, and despite the fact that our lockdown and masking requirements have pretty much come to an end most other places.

It's so strange that the UK can't do any of this - but it does seem like the government continues to stick its head in the sand and shout 'la la la'.

Delatron · 04/06/2021 16:52

@CallmeHendricks but children won’t ever be vaccinated most likely? I think you need to accept that Covid will be circulating in schools for years. And that won’t be a problem. Because most adults and vulnerable people will have had an effective vaccination. You need a reality check.

Anyway. Back in the real world...
If cases in schools don’t lead to a rise in hospitalisations and deaths then nothing will happen. Nada.

Zoorhik · 04/06/2021 16:52

What worries me is that there is no vaccine for primary age children. As was mentioned the Delta variant is spreading very quickly through schools in the north west. What will happen in September? We can’t keep closing whole key stages down which has been happening in the school I work in. How will parents keep being able to take time off work to look after their children who are being told to isolate possibly more than once in a term? There needs to be a new strategy implemented for this....... what..... I don’t know but we can’t keep on sending children home for 10 days when one child tests positive . And yes all school staff need to have had the second vaccine and I personally believe they should be wearing masks although I do understand that this can have a detrimental effect on some children’s CLL and PSED skills.

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