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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
noblegiraffe · 07/06/2021 19:58

I’ve read the vast majority of your threads and you call for school to shut all the time

Nope.

I even tried to make it blatantly obvious by making it a thread title, but still people can't read.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4095400-noblegiraffe-wants-SAFER-schools-not-closed-schools-Do-you

OP posts:
BustopherPonsonbyJones · 07/06/2021 19:59

She really doesn’t. She wants to keep schools open. For everyone. So children aren’t isolating at home. So teachers aren’t isolating at home. So people don’t get sick.She wants PROPER safety measures put in place.

It’s not that difficult to understand.

Onceuponatime1818 · 07/06/2021 20:00

@Watapalava

And what’s your profession out of interest?

itsgettingwierd · 07/06/2021 20:00

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

She really doesn’t. She wants to keep schools open. For everyone. So children aren’t isolating at home. So teachers aren’t isolating at home. So people don’t get sick.She wants PROPER safety measures put in place.

It’s not that difficult to understand.

Well - you'd think it wasn't difficult to understand Wink

These thread would prove otherwise time and time again.

Watapalava · 07/06/2021 20:00

Your idea of safer involved clused schools! Bubbles etc which still mean so closed year groups

You called for schools to stay shut til Easter even tho over half the resulting positive cases were false and there was no spike at all after they went back

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 07/06/2021 20:01

You cannot be serious? I’ve read the vast majority of your threads and you call for school to shut all the time

You’ve seen this, but will be mysteriously unable to find evidence. Why is that?

Do you work on education as you seem to have claimed? Because:

*despite
*jobs.
*basis.
*profession.

itsgettingwierd · 07/06/2021 20:02

@Watapalava

Your idea of safer involved clused schools! Bubbles etc which still mean so closed year groups

You called for schools to stay shut til Easter even tho over half the resulting positive cases were false and there was no spike at all after they went back

They've gone back.

Government have announced a spike in cases due to delta variant.

You can't deny their data even if you disputes nobles data (that is just there's that's she posted!)

itsgettingwierd · 07/06/2021 20:02

Theirs even 🤦‍♀️

noblegiraffe · 07/06/2021 20:02

You called for schools to stay shut til Easter

Nope again. That's already been debunked on this thread, btw. So your claim to have read the vast majority of my threads when you haven't even read this one isn't looking that convincing.

OP posts:
roguetomato · 07/06/2021 20:10

@Watapalava

Noble

You cannot be serious? I’ve read the vast majority of your threads and you call for school to shut all the time

I can’t belive you deny it with straight face

Funny that I've read plenty of Noble's thread too and never seen her call for school closure. As far as I know, she always called for safer school, not school to close.
Mistressiggi · 07/06/2021 20:13

@Watapalava

Noble

You cannot be serious? I’ve read the vast majority of your threads and you call for school to shut all the time

I can’t belive you deny it with straight face

Search for it then. Shouldn't be hard to find some examples.
carolinesbaby · 07/06/2021 20:13

suggested keeping masks and improving ventilation to keep them open.

I agree that it seems too soon to stop wearing masks in schools. I have a 12 year old who has never minded wearing them though does complain they're hot.
Not sure how we could better ventilate though.

So what other mitigation methods could be used, that don't involve sending kids home?

motherrunner · 07/06/2021 20:14

@Watapalava

Teachers didn’t get the vaccine ahead of others because dispite all the scare tactics they employed for months on end, ons data showed time and time again they were low down on the most risky jobs

Didn’t stop dozens of them moaning on here on a daily basis

An embarrassment to their profession

‘Moaning’ trivialises the very valid concerns teachers have about safety mitigations in their workplaces.

‘Moaning’ is what I do when I realise there isn’t enough milk left in the fridge, I would use it to describe the concerns I had about disrupted education and ill staff and pupils.

motherrunner · 07/06/2021 20:15

*wouldn’t

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 07/06/2021 20:17

Mitigation measures we're using at our high school...

  • we have sideless marquees being used as outdoor classrooms
  • air filters
  • using seatplans so that if a student tests positive, we know who has spent more than 15 minutes within 3' of him/her (they wear masks so 3' is the recommended distance).
  • masks worn throughout the day unless eating - they are always seated 6' apart while eating. This involves students eating in classrooms, outside, in the cafeteria, in the gym, in the music room...
  • staggered start/finish times
ZZTopGuitarSolo · 07/06/2021 20:18

We're also vaccinating students as fast as humanly possible. Second clinic for 12-18 is at the middle school tomorrow. Two weeks after that they will all officially be fully vaccinated and no need to quarantine or isolate due to Covid exposure.

Most of our over 16s are by now fully vaccinated or very close.

carolinesbaby · 07/06/2021 20:18

Zztopguitarsolo, some of those sound good but expensive. Do you feel safer as a teacher for all of that?

carolinesbaby · 07/06/2021 20:19

Sounds like you're not in the U.K.? Are class sizes, space etc similar to the U.K.?

motherrunner · 07/06/2021 20:19

@ZZTopGuitarSolo

Mitigation measures we're using at our high school...
  • we have sideless marquees being used as outdoor classrooms
  • air filters
  • using seatplans so that if a student tests positive, we know who has spent more than 15 minutes within 3' of him/her (they wear masks so 3' is the recommended distance).
  • masks worn throughout the day unless eating - they are always seated 6' apart while eating. This involves students eating in classrooms, outside, in the cafeteria, in the gym, in the music room...
  • staggered start/finish times
Wow! One of the classrooms I teach in doesn’t even have a window to open.
ZZTopGuitarSolo · 07/06/2021 20:19

I agree that it seems too soon to stop wearing masks in schools. I have a 12 year old who has never minded wearing them though does complain they're hot.

It's 32C here today - some schools have closed because it's just too uncomfortable for students/teachers to wear masks in these temperatures. DS's school did not close and he survived but he said it was shit. 32C is uncommonly hot for us though.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 07/06/2021 20:20

@Reachersloveinterest

Zztopguitarsolo, some of those sound good but expensive. Do you feel safer as a teacher for all of that?
I'm not a teacher but I've felt that my children were very safe.

Yes some of them were expensive. The government here accepted that Covid would cost money, but also that short term expense would save long-term disruption. (Not in the UK obviously...)

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 07/06/2021 20:22

@Reachersloveinterest

Sounds like you're not in the U.K.? Are class sizes, space etc similar to the U.K.?
I'd say our class sizes are slightly smaller for the space - typically 25 rather than 30.

Which implies to me that perhaps the UK should be doing more mitigation than us, not less...

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 07/06/2021 20:25

We also vaccinated teachers early so that if they were exposed to Covid they did not have to quarantine. All about minimising disruption in schools.

itsgettingwierd · 07/06/2021 20:26

Zz sounds great. Wish our government cared about students as much as yours does. I think we are lucky to have teachers and unions fighting for them tbh. Because this thread shows their parents won't in some cases!

Are you USA? I heard they've been vaccinating teens for a while now

ChloeDecker · 07/06/2021 20:26

The British govt really does not care about students and school staff when all they can be arsed to recommend is that schools purchase lidded bins using their existing budget.

Thanks for pointing out to the many doubters on here, with that sensible list, exactly what we are unhappy about ZZTopGuitarSolo