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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
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13
noblegiraffe · 06/06/2021 21:16

Doesn't he look tired?

God I hope that works...

OP posts:
MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 06/06/2021 21:17

@noblegiraffe

Doesn't he look tired?

God I hope that works...

It won't. The man is Teflon.
Willyoujustbequiet · 06/06/2021 21:23

Delatron you said the schools went back and it was fine.

That's not out experience. We had numerous schools closed and year groups isolating in others. This was despite masks in communal areas.

Notified tonight of a further 10 positive cases and possible closure and we aren't in a hotspot.

It's never got any better in schools here.

itsgettingwierd · 06/06/2021 21:51

@Willyoujustbequiet

Delatron you said the schools went back and it was fine.

That's not out experience. We had numerous schools closed and year groups isolating in others. This was despite masks in communal areas.

Notified tonight of a further 10 positive cases and possible closure and we aren't in a hotspot.

It's never got any better in schools here.

People think "not closed to all but K and V means fine".

They like to ignore all the isolations and the detrimental affect that has had in the pupils MH.

It suits an agenda.

MH however said the same himself earlier. He admitted transmission in schools is very high and the isolations and constant bubbles bursting is detrimental.

In actual fact I think if the government had announced all schools were open but all pupils had to isolate from jan to March everyone would have been more than happy. They like to quibble semantics Wink

Watapalava · 06/06/2021 21:59

schools were largely fine in march

thank god they didn't remain closed

ons data from school testing the first two weeks they went back (6- 17 march ) proved 60% of positive lft were false positive so majority of isolations shouldn't have happened at all

Mistressiggi · 06/06/2021 22:03

With a false positive lft they would have to isolate for one day (till the pcr came back) I don't think those isolations are the ones that cause trouble are they?

sherrystrull · 06/06/2021 22:04

@Watapalava

schools were largely fine in march

thank god they didn't remain closed

ons data from school testing the first two weeks they went back (6- 17 march ) proved 60% of positive lft were false positive so majority of isolations shouldn't have happened at all

Primary school children aren't doing LFT. Isolations are from positive PCR tests.
Watapalava · 06/06/2021 22:04

willy i'm north west and close to many of the peak areas currently

no one i know has had it for over 6 months
no schools are shut or have sent years home (i work in education so have a lot of contacts)
its not even on radar despite being 'red' on the heat case maps

its defo localised and as such local action is best and works

sefton has massively reduced its case rate of the indian variant and schools all fine

Watapalava · 06/06/2021 22:06

in the first two weeks they had to isolate after lft regardless of a pcr - that was national policy at the time so all those isolations took place in secondaries

FrippEnos · 06/06/2021 22:08

Good to see that we are back to 'No-ones had it here so what is the point"

I am not in a hot spot yet we have had multiple cases over the last two months backed up by positive pcr tests.

sherrystrull · 06/06/2021 22:10

@Watapalava

willy i'm north west and close to many of the peak areas currently

no one i know has had it for over 6 months
no schools are shut or have sent years home (i work in education so have a lot of contacts)
its not even on radar despite being 'red' on the heat case maps

its defo localised and as such local action is best and works

sefton has massively reduced its case rate of the indian variant and schools all fine

Lots of cases where I am and it's not a hotspot.

It creates an uneven academic playing field when certain schools and children have repeated isolation periods.

The effect on mental health is horrific as well.

saraclara · 06/06/2021 22:28

The latest data for my LA area shows that cases doubled in the week ending 30/5
20% of cases were in the 1-9 age group
45%% of cases were in the 10-19 age group.

So two-thirds of known cases that week were in school/nursery aged children.
Also in my area, 97% of new cases are the Delta variant.

I very very much hope that our secondary schools will be reinstating the mask rule tomorrow, and be back to social distancing and bubbles.

Watapalava · 06/06/2021 22:34

Why ? Doesn’t matter if kids get it

Anyone at risk of severe disease and death has had one vaccine which does most of the work

Honestly some people have a real heightened sense of risk

If unvaccinated currently it’s because your chance of dying or being seriously ill is non existent

Regulus · 06/06/2021 22:37

@Watapalava

Why ? Doesn’t matter if kids get it

Anyone at risk of severe disease and death has had one vaccine which does most of the work

Honestly some people have a real heightened sense of risk

If unvaccinated currently it’s because your chance of dying or being seriously ill is non existent

You keep telling yourself this, I'm sure it's a comfort.
helpmebeanadult · 06/06/2021 22:52

I just wish the government would stop continually lying. I know all governments lie, but the current government's constant lying in the face of facts would be laughable if their (in)actions didn't have such shitty long term consequences. The kids are meant to be the future. Put in place some mitigations ffs. @noblegiraffe I think you've spoken a lot of sense throughout this pandemic and I do not understand why you are often accused of wanting schools shut etc. It's always come across to me that you want schools to be opened in a more sustainable way with actual risks acknowledged. I would love that too.

ICanSmellSummerComing · 06/06/2021 23:00

So many places are managing to do mix learning, in and on line so everyone can separate more, bubbles are kept closer, less mixing, they get to see their friends, do sport etc.
I don't understand why this was never rolled out.
Schools with tight catchment should not be problematic in areas with low delta but some schools bus dc in from huge catchments and these are the mixing pots.

We also never ever got a proper hang on fresh air.
Cleaning the air, making sure windows are open. Where I work, students come from a wide area and many students and staff are covid fatigued and don't worry about covid any more.

Macaroni46 · 06/06/2021 23:03

Surely it's time now to prioritise offering the vaccine to any school staff not yet done. With cases rising amongst youngsters and pupils I think this is vital. Really feel for my younger colleagues.

ICanSmellSummerComing · 06/06/2021 23:06

Re the photos of empty class rooms with sd dc sitting perfectly,

Whilst infuriating, how does a teacher get pics to the media?
The media would have to approach the school and then they would need parental consent and so on

noblegiraffe · 06/06/2021 23:13

But they could just use stock photos of classrooms from before the pandemic. Nothing is different!

OP posts:
sherrystrull · 06/06/2021 23:19

@noblegiraffe

But they could just use stock photos of classrooms from before the pandemic. Nothing is different!
I've now got two bottles of hand sanitiser on my desk!
herecomesthsun · 06/06/2021 23:20

@Watapalava

Why ? Doesn’t matter if kids get it

Anyone at risk of severe disease and death has had one vaccine which does most of the work

Honestly some people have a real heightened sense of risk

If unvaccinated currently it’s because your chance of dying or being seriously ill is non existent

My child started immune suppressant therapy in April - and also has asthma. If an adult, they would be in group 6 or possibly group 4. They have not yet been offered a vaccine.

I would be very keen, with good reason, for DC not to get covid.

ICanSmellSummerComing · 06/06/2021 23:27

Yes very true noble.
It's so frustrating.
And what is happening about next winter that's the one I'm dreading, why are we slow to react and slow to move.
By now we should be able to switch easily between different modes for different levels of risk.

3asAbird · 07/06/2021 00:02

I'm worried as saw this news article

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/expert-expresses-fears-over-covid-outbreaks-at-bristol-schools

My kids all 3 attend 3 different Bristol schools.
We get covid updates email from council not mentioning school out breaks or fact we have have least 28 delta varient here.
Lots families gone away half term.
Also first his removed social distancing on buses so chance it could sweep through all Bristol City centre senior schools is a worry.

ChloeDecker · 07/06/2021 06:25

@ICanSmellSummerComing

Re the photos of empty class rooms with sd dc sitting perfectly,

Whilst infuriating, how does a teacher get pics to the media?
The media would have to approach the school and then they would need parental consent and so on

The media go to the same DforE loving academies to get the photos (hence they are always taken in brand spanking new classrooms with new furniture and smart uniforms etc.)

They’d never want to set foot in one of my classrooms with paint falling off, broken windows, gum/ripped carpet and graffiti on some desks!

Piggywaspushed · 07/06/2021 07:02

I work in education always the favourite line to claim some sort of authority.