Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 22:01

@FrippEnos

Scrambledcustard

The vaccine hadn't been rolled out by then. It's an entirely different situation.

Teenagers have not been vaccinated, and neither have many of the teachers.

But this has already been said many times on this thread,

Its almost as if you haven't read the thread.

Yet teenagers have a minuscule chance of death or getting seriously ill. Its almost is if you know nothing about the statistics.
noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 22:02

This was said this morning on the BBC. Its at odds with what you're pushing.

What am I pushing? Explain to my what my OP is saying and why.

OP posts:
MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 05/06/2021 22:03

It's funny, because noble's threads always feel like echo chambers.

She posts facts, backed up with links to evidence, then people come on and talk sensibly about what she's posted, sometimes disagreeing, but never attacking her. Certainly not sending up the Bat(ty) signal to their U4T friends.

Oh, hang on...

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 05/06/2021 22:03

Off to bed now. Night all!

Regulus · 05/06/2021 22:04

Yet teenagers have a minuscule chance of death or getting seriously ill. Its almost is if you know nothing about the statistics

Ignoring the cavalier attitude , how does having to isolate support our children? Especially when some children have multiple isolations and other none?

sherrystrull · 05/06/2021 22:04

@OneMoreWish

Yes *@sherrystrull* we thought ventilation too, though we also wondered whether it could be to do with the Delta strain being more likely to spread?
I think you're probably right. There will be no social distancing in most bubbles as there are too many children and now there's no masks. Scary really.
FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 22:06

Scrambledcustard

Its a shame that you don't understand that a positive result can in up to 40 close contacts missing school.

But you keep on misreading and wilfully misunderstanding peoples posts.

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 22:06

My colleague was musing how something must have gone wrong with the covid safe procedures for so many to have caught it. It's the first I had heard of such a large number in a group catch it.

It seems that the Delta variant is 40-60% more transmissible than the Kent variant.

But there's also the issue that before Christmas they simply weren't testing in schools so we have no idea how many cases there were in schools back then. It's possible that many in a group caught it but only a handful actually tested positive because of the requirement for certain symptoms.

Not sure what measures were that he thought would prevent 30 teens in a crowded room catching covid from each other though. I'm

OP posts:
TheHoneyBadger · 05/06/2021 22:40

I’m lost as to how an aggressor came to be playing the victim Confused

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 22:44

It's a familiar tactic, Honey, usually wheeled out because of an inability to actually engage in the discussion.

See also: 'all you want to do is close schools'

OP posts:
Volhhg · 05/06/2021 23:59

@mumsneedwine

And no one wants schools to close. We want them to be safer. Masks, vaccines, ventilation, some attempt at space. The same as every other workplace. It's really not hard to understand is it ?
It's really not like this in my workplace. The covid safe idea is rubbish and most workplaces I know of don't enforce rules properly
Volhhg · 06/06/2021 00:16

@noblegiraffe

Vaccine take-up in teachers is really high. 99% in the over 50s. I guess because we have more experience of the effects of covid than other professions?

However you can see from the latest data that there's still a significant proportion of teachers in younger age groups yet to have their first jab, and quite a few in the older age groups who are still waiting for their second.

Vaccine take up in Care home staff is much lower than this and vaccine hesitancy is a real issue. I don't think you can say that teachers are taking it because they have more experience of covid than other professions. Perhaps I have misunderstood your point because this is obviously wrong.
noblegiraffe · 06/06/2021 00:26

Not obviously wrong, *volhhg^ and I suspect there are more factors involved than just exposure. Education levels, as a PP mentioned. Ethnicity - teaching is not the most racially diverse profession. But I don't think it can be discounted that being in front of classes with no protection as you watch covid travel around a year group might focus the mind a little in a way that working from home for a year doesn't.

OP posts:
Neverendingstory356 · 06/06/2021 07:10

@Scrambledcustard
'Hospital admissions are young people that hadn't been vaccinated and we still dont know if those younger people had other health issues.'

I'm a young(ish) teacher but clinically vulnerable at the minute because I happen to be pregnant. Is it fine then for me to get COVID at work from my students and end up in hospital?

I'd love to know how many bleating on about how teachers just need to get on with it have been sat on furlough or wfh for much of the last year.

NotDonna · 06/06/2021 07:54

@noblegiraffe

Parents were told previously that children would be allowed to lateral flow test daily instead of isolating if a classmate tested positive? What happened to that?

They are running trials in 200 schools but have not, so far, published the data.

How long have the trials been running? Would it be reasonable to assume they’d have a decent set of data now? The school situation has been a shambles. I’m not a teacher but have 3 secondary kids (2 in exams years). Bursting of bubbles is incredibly disruptive and we’ve been lucky with only 3 isolation periods. Teachers, police etc should have been vaccinated alongside carers. Masks should not be removed. There should be total transparency regards data & it’s reporting.
Wherediditgo · 06/06/2021 08:04

I really don’t understand what the issue would be with leaving current restrictions in place until they break up for summer holidays. Is it me being thick?!
Come September, the majority will have been double vaccinated!

beenrumbled · 06/06/2021 08:50

Just watched BBC news and suddenly there seems to be a push from the government to make sure secondary school and college kids do a covid test before going back to school tomorrow. Apparently the rise in the Delta variant is causing concern in schools.

We have been doing LTFs twice a week anyway. But for those that haven't, reminding them the day before whiff of panic.

Piggywaspushed · 06/06/2021 08:52

I saw that : it also mentioned PCRs rather than LFTs which I found interesting. Are they going to admit the LFDs are a pile of shite or was that a media typo/misapprehension about the school test kits?

ChloeDecker · 06/06/2021 08:52

The covid safe idea is rubbish and most workplaces I know of don't enforce rules properly

Ah but they have those rules at least Volhhg

And to NotDonna, thank you for putting very good points. So many people think the only ‘endgame’ is death and so are very happy to ignore the huge disruption to education that thousands of young people have had to face and are currently facing to their face to face education, just so that the political point of ‘schools are safe’ can continue make people feel better and ignore what education staff are saying.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/06/2021 08:55

[quote Neverendingstory356]@Scrambledcustard
'Hospital admissions are young people that hadn't been vaccinated and we still dont know if those younger people had other health issues.'

I'm a young(ish) teacher but clinically vulnerable at the minute because I happen to be pregnant. Is it fine then for me to get COVID at work from my students and end up in hospital?

I'd love to know how many bleating on about how teachers just need to get on with it have been sat on furlough or wfh for much of the last year.[/quote]
I work in a factory and I think those of us in jobs where we can't WFH do just have to get on with it, especially at this point where vaccinations are being rolled out.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/06/2021 08:57

@Volhhg same, social distancing at my work is impossible. Loads of people caught Covid in January and we're still struggling to catch up after so many people had to isolate.

FrippEnos · 06/06/2021 08:59

@Wherediditgo

I really don’t understand what the issue would be with leaving current restrictions in place until they break up for summer holidays. Is it me being thick?! Come September, the majority will have been double vaccinated!
Its all part of the "schools are safe" myth that has been pedalled from the start of this by a very gobby 'parent' group that has the governments ear.
Neverendingstory356 · 06/06/2021 09:06

@Waxonwaxoff0

And I'd be very happy to get on with it if schools had to abide by the same basic guidelines and COVID safety precautions that exists in every other workplace.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 06/06/2021 09:07

[quote Neverendingstory356]@Waxonwaxoff0

And I'd be very happy to get on with it if schools had to abide by the same basic guidelines and COVID safety precautions that exists in every other workplace.[/quote]
They don't exist where I work. In theory they are there but not followed. No one bothers to social distance, windows were not open in winter, we don't wear masks.

ChloeDecker · 06/06/2021 09:12

And it’s not a race to the bottom Waxonwaxoff0

I’ve discussed a few times about how factory workers needed better safety measures (and according to links below, plenty are not just getting on with it and correctly fighting back) including their unions representing them. Just like with education staff, many still ‘tell them to get on with it’ including their bosses and this is not right and shouldn’t be used to shut down people who don’t want to have to put up with it (even though they still valiantly keep going to work)

It doesn’t have to be either or. Education staff and parents with children in school do have the right to complain and worry, just like factory workers do and are.

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/feb/18/uk-garment-factory-workers-at-higher-risk-of-dying-with-covid-study

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5eb965d5d3bf7f5d3c74a2dd/working-safely-during-covid-19-factories-plants-warehouses-041120.pdf

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gmb-workers-scotland-france-acas-b934265.html

www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2020/june/employers-have-duty-to-safeguard-staff-and-public-as-more-meat-factory-coronavirus-outbreaks-suspected/

www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2021/june/summer-weetabix-shortages-expected-during-northamptonshire-cereal-workers-strike/

www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2021/february/quorn-strike-action-off-at-teesside-factory-as-staff-accept-excellent-pay-deal/

Swipe left for the next trending thread