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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
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noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:35

They slipped up with their name upthread, which is how I realised

PM please!!! Grin

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MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 05/06/2021 21:36

Richard Osman posted something very comforting on Twitter last year along the lines of 'oh, they're just showing off. They're all going to do the right thing when it comes down to it'. I try to remember that, although I fear I'm less charitable than him.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 21:37

@noblegiraffe

Yes pre vaccine schools were really unsafe. I get that.

But now it is perfectly reasonable to allow a new variant that is 40-60% more transmissible than Kent, puts you at 2.6 times the risk of hospitalisation (but if you've been socialising you deserve it anyway), and which more than half the population are not really protected against to run through schools without making any particular effort to stop it?

Some of us would like to see restrictions lifted, to see foreign countries open their borders to us. Do you think your plan of 'this is actually great news' is the best way of achieving that?

Yet still no significant rise in deaths or critical care. Thats the most important bit. Hospital admissions are young people that hadn't been vaccinated and we still dont know if those younger people had other health issues. These young people are not needing critical care beds, wasn't at risk of serious complications or risk of death. This is a significant change from last time.

I think Noble because your refusing to look at the difference between the spike in infections ( which is due to lockdown lifting) and the age range against critical care beds needed and deaths its clear your posts are politically motivated and scaremongering people.

Some of us would like to see restrictions lifted, to see foreign countries open their borders to us. Do you think your plan of 'this is actually great news' is the best way of achieving that? - are you suggesting another lockdown?

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:37

Posting teacher vaccination data again - the ones jabbed recently will be first jabs only.

Delta variant spreading in schools
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noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:39

its clear your posts are politically motivated and scaremongering people.

What's my politics?

Is not wanting to fuck up with covid again a political motivation?

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noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:39

are you suggesting another lockdown?

No. Again you are talking to that little voice in your head, and not actually reading what anyone is saying.

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Regulus · 05/06/2021 21:39

itsgettingwierd

Not ironic at all, you know that cave that I visited to remove the locket and when Harry visited he felt it, well its just like that!

Seems crazy but it's the only way I can deal with it all.

Agree that there are plenty of posters who are refusing to go back to the office until they are double jabbed. What I don't understand is who will teach the children when the teachers are isolating.

FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 21:40

Scrambledcustard

And here I was thinking that keeping schools open so that kids can get an education was important.

Regulus · 05/06/2021 21:44

Yet still no significant rise in deaths or critical care. Thats the most important bit

And this is what people kept posting in November and then when cases were rising it was only a little, and people were scaremongering by saying that if it keeps rising schools will close... and then they did. Even the first day back for primary people were saying they wouldn't close.

I don't want closures, I want measures to prevent closures and prevent mass isolation.
Mass isolation is especially troublesome when happening in geographical areas, there are already schools that have closed to many pupils, many of these schools had prolonged closures in the autumn. These children are going to be tested next year against children who have not had to isolate once.

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 05/06/2021 21:44

'Hospital admissions are young people that hadn't been vaccinated and we still dont know if those younger people had other health issues.'

@Scrambledcustard if it turns out that those children do have other health issues, will it be ok? That they've ended up in hospital with COVID?

Will it somehow be less significant than if 100% healthy children were hospitalised?

sherrystrull · 05/06/2021 21:47

@Regulus

Yet still no significant rise in deaths or critical care. Thats the most important bit

And this is what people kept posting in November and then when cases were rising it was only a little, and people were scaremongering by saying that if it keeps rising schools will close... and then they did. Even the first day back for primary people were saying they wouldn't close.

I don't want closures, I want measures to prevent closures and prevent mass isolation.
Mass isolation is especially troublesome when happening in geographical areas, there are already schools that have closed to many pupils, many of these schools had prolonged closures in the autumn. These children are going to be tested next year against children who have not had to isolate once.

Absolutely agree.
Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 21:49

@noblegiraffe

are you suggesting another lockdown?

No. Again you are talking to that little voice in your head, and not actually reading what anyone is saying.

Why are attacking me?
noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:49

If they have health conditions, Miles or if they've been socialising, then no one should be concerned about them being hospitalised.

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Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 21:49

you*

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:50

Because, scrambled you keep making shit up and pretending it's what I think.

You can't engage with what I'm actually saying, can you?

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FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 21:50

Regulus

There is a quote that suits some of the posters on here

"Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it."

Seems that some just won't learn.

Regulus · 05/06/2021 21:51

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

'Hospital admissions are young people that hadn't been vaccinated and we still dont know if those younger people had other health issues.'

@Scrambledcustard if it turns out that those children do have other health issues, will it be ok? That they've ended up in hospital with COVID?

Will it somehow be less significant than if 100% healthy children were hospitalised?

A brilliant example of 'othering'

Underlying conditions cover a plethora of everyday conditions that are not life shortening nor life limiting. And those that have life limiting conditions...Well anything could kill them so I guess they don't count.

TicketyTickTock · 05/06/2021 21:51

I'm double vaccinated and I got sodding COVID anyway. I'm one of the "very very few". Did I end up in hospital? No. Have I worked in 6 weeks? No. Can I get off the sofa? No. This isn't just about hospital admissions. For a lot of people this is life changing. I'm really hoping I still continue to improve but for now I can't walk my own dog or look after my own kids.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 21:51

And this is what people kept posting in November and then when cases were rising it was only a little, and people were scaremongering by saying that if it keeps rising schools will close... and then they did. Even the first day back for primary people were saying they wouldn't close

The vaccine hadn't been rolled out by then. It's an entirely different situation.

OneMoreWish · 05/06/2021 21:53

I was speaking with a colleague on Friday whose secondary school son had caught covid - out of 37 children ( in his bubble - is that still a thing in schools?) 27 caught covid at the same time. My colleague was musing how something must have gone wrong with the covid safe procedures for so many to have caught it. It's the first I had heard of such a large number in a group catch it.

sherrystrull · 05/06/2021 21:55

The bubble is not covid safe. Ventilation is a possibility along with hand gel.

FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 21:56

Scrambledcustard

The vaccine hadn't been rolled out by then. It's an entirely different situation.

Teenagers have not been vaccinated, and neither have many of the teachers.

But this has already been said many times on this thread,

Its almost as if you haven't read the thread.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 22:00

@noblegiraffe

Because, scrambled you keep making shit up and pretending it's what I think.

You can't engage with what I'm actually saying, can you?

Yes I can its just that you dont like that I have a different opinion to you so your starting to try and attack me. Saying some one is hearing voices in their head, that they can't read, that they can't engage because they believe different to you isn't very noble is it?

NHS Providers chief executive, Chris Hopson, said the number of people in hospital with the Covid-19 variant first detected in India - known as the Delta variant - was not increasing “very significantly”

This was said this morning on the BBC. Its at odds with what you're pushing.

We both have a difference of opinion, no need to start attacking people with opposing views. MN is not an echo chamber

Regulus · 05/06/2021 22:00

@Scrambledcustard

And this is what people kept posting in November and then when cases were rising it was only a little, and people were scaremongering by saying that if it keeps rising schools will close... and then they did. Even the first day back for primary people were saying they wouldn't close

The vaccine hadn't been rolled out by then. It's an entirely different situation.

As has already been pointed out one vaccine offers 33% protection, double vaccine doesn't offer 100%, if it is allowed to spread unchecked we will be in a difficult situation.
OneMoreWish · 05/06/2021 22:00

Yes @sherrystrull we thought ventilation too, though we also wondered whether it could be to do with the Delta strain being more likely to spread?