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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
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noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 20:36

So you admit that it's not great news that increasing numbers of young people are requiring hospitalisation due to covid.

Good that we agree.

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noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 20:37

So... not much to see here.

I posted more thorough data earlier in the thread. It doesn't fit with your anecdote.

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sherrystrull · 05/06/2021 20:44

@TeddingtonTrashbag

ah so we're on to all teachers need double jabs now? Well that goal post changed Indeed. And in any case - in my school most have already had two jabs and the youngest teacher (aged 27) had hers two weeks ago. So... not much to see here.
That's absolutely not the case in my school. Some have had to change their first and second vaccines due to isolation periods when their bubbles popped.
Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 20:45

@noblegiraffe

So you admit that it's not great news that increasing numbers of young people are requiring hospitalisation due to covid.

Good that we agree.

People are out socialising it was expected, that's what happens when lockdowns lifts. Whats great news is that it isn't the older people who have been vaccinated. Its now younger people that won't get seriously ill with it and need critical care.

The vaccines are working.

Thats great news.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 20:53

@noblegiraffe

So... not much to see here.

I posted more thorough data earlier in the thread. It doesn't fit with your anecdote.

You posted data on a rise in schools Noble that doesn't correlate to a significant rise in deaths or critical care this time round. That will be the deciding factor. We know the NHS are having a very different experience this time.

Yes pre vaccine schools were really unsafe. I get that. But this is a totally different situation.

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 20:53

How do you know so very much about every single teacher at your school teddington ? I couldn't tell you about all of mine.

TeddingtonTrashbag · 05/06/2021 20:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 20:56

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Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 20:58

It's a genuinely awful thing to do.

TeddingtonTrashbag · 05/06/2021 21:00

This reply has been deleted

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Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 21:01

It's not your thread.

NautaOcts · 05/06/2021 21:08

@noblegiraffe very informative and balanced OP thank you

I think the local difference thing is really key. From where I am September - December worked ok, my kids only missed a couple of days when one of them had a test after a cough. My dds secondary school of 1500 only had I think 7 or 8 positives.

This week numbers in this local authority area are 5 per 100 000. So of course to me it seems ludicrous to be talking about schools closing.

But it is interesting what is happening elsewhere. And we know things can change quickly.

Whilst the trend in this (semi rural) area is cases falling, I noticed the nearby small city is seeing a slight rise although this is from a very low base.

A local approach is problematic as there are always boundaries and grey areas. But there is such variation.

BlackeyedSusan · 05/06/2021 21:10

the glass is always full, just that the top half is full of gas... much like this thread is half full of hot air...

itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 21:10

I'm very sorry noble you are doing a great job and I want to support you but I need to walk away from this thread now.

I'm not a teacher but work a specialist role within a school as an hlta. I get laid by the hour but have worked way above my contracted hours providing lessons and in school keyworker cover for shielding teaching staff. I have done more things above my pay scale than at.
Whilst also protecting my own CV disabled child and looking after my shielding parents who both had cancer and chemo during LD1. Mum is now terminal and her last years will have been this shit.
I have done this as I believe in education and providing the best for all school children despite the governments smear campaign against school staff.

I've watched children excited to return to be crushed at isolation again. I've watched them return anxious about the next isolation. Some funding for measures could have helped reduce this.

But to have someone laugh at a much loved member of school community dying of covid (employed by la not school but still a member of our community) has just broken me.

Good luck noble and others. I hope to be strong enough to support your quest should another thread be needed again in the future Thanks

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:13

Yes pre vaccine schools were really unsafe. I get that.

But now it is perfectly reasonable to allow a new variant that is 40-60% more transmissible than Kent, puts you at 2.6 times the risk of hospitalisation (but if you've been socialising you deserve it anyway), and which more than half the population are not really protected against to run through schools without making any particular effort to stop it?

Some of us would like to see restrictions lifted, to see foreign countries open their borders to us. Do you think your plan of 'this is actually great news' is the best way of achieving that?

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Mistressiggi · 05/06/2021 21:14

I have reported "that" poster. Unbelievable.

@itsgettingwierd I know it's a typo but your "getting laid by the hour" did make me smile in the midst of an unpleasant few posts. Smile

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:16

I'm really sorry, itsgetting, I think walking away is best in the circumstances. Some people seem to think that this whole thing is just a game.

Really sorry you had to read that vile comment, and extremely sorry about your colleague. Flowers

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cantkeepawayforever · 05/06/2021 21:19

Yes pre vaccine schools were really unsafe. I get that.

You may 'get that' now - but the tone of the posts directed at teachers in the time before the vaccine was available (and remember that even now there are many teachers not yet eligible) was EXACTLY the same as they are on this thread.

So it does feel very much as if the pattern is 'rubbish and ridicule now, then quietly agree once events play out as the original posters had said, then rubbish and ridicule them again about the next thing'.

Teachers said schools were unsafe before. They were laughed and sneered at. They turned out to be right. Teachers are being laughed and sneered at again....and I can see the same series of events playing through again.

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 21:20

I reported too. Other people who argue with teachers / Noble on these threads occasionally insult Noble but generally engage in debate. Your sneering and glee are despicable trash

cantkeepawayforever · 05/06/2021 21:22

It is worth remembering that teachers, every day, go into an environment which would not be allowable as 'Covid safe' anywhere else in the country, and has not been allowed anywhere else since March last year.

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 05/06/2021 21:26

@TeddingtonTrashbag

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
Nominative determinism spoils the party again!

Glad that got deleted quickly.

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:27

This week numbers in this local authority area are 5 per 100 000. So of course to me it seems ludicrous to be talking about schools closing.

NautaOcts I totally agree, and what is really important is that we manage the situation robustly so that what is happening in the North West and other areas doesn't spread.

And cant's point is also important - this is an educational issue too. As I mentioned in the OP, we should be having discussions about targeting catch-up funding at areas that were and are worst-hit by school closures.

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MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 05/06/2021 21:29

No idea about the bag-of-rubbish poster, but another 'controversial' poster on this thread is a name-changer, who only seems to have joined MN in the last couple of weeks. (They slipped up with their name upthread, which is how I realised).

Take heart! I don't think everyone on here is posting in good faith.

In other news, I just found out that the Pope is Catholic.

 I'm so sorry about your colleague, @itsgettingwierd Thanks

FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 21:30

Seeing Teddington is working on annecdata.

At my school we have teachers that have not been invited for their vaccination yet.

Luckily we are in an area were the hub rings the school and offers left over spaces.

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 21:33

I don't think everyone on here is posting in good faith.

Well that is unusual and unexpected!

I usually like to think that all the 'can't read won't read' posters are posting in bad faith, because the thought that they are genuine is a bit too depressing.

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