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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
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13
Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 19:38

No jabs were ever a stipulation to keep schools open!

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 19:39

@noblegiraffe

Yes, you need double jabs, because the data shows that a single jab isn't particularly effective against this variant.

Single jabs appeared to be good enough for Kent.

Some people really need to read the news before they start spouting off.

"NHS Providers chief executive, Chris Hopson actually said that on the news this morning. BBC.

Some people need to accept its not as bad as they are desperate to believe .

SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 05/06/2021 19:39

Then in September, hopefully the majority of teachers & parents will be vaccinated, we won’t need any mitigations and life will be blissfully back to normal-ish.

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 19:41

Scrambled can't even read her own posts now, let alone anyone else's, it seems.

From your post.

"What we think we can start to say now, based on that experience, is that it does look as though the vaccines have broken the chain between catching Covid-19 and potentially being very, very seriously ill and potentially dying.

“There were very, very few people who have had those double jabs and had been able to have that build-up of protection after those jabs.”

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itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 19:44

@SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo

it does look as though the vaccines have broken the chain between catching Covid-19 and potentially being very, very seriously ill and potentially dying

Yes, for people who are FULLY VACCINATED. Holy Christ, how many times. Why are you trying to prove a point by posting things that actually prove the opposite? Is it fun? Are you having a lovely time?

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Actually spat my coffee out at that. Perfectly summed up!

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 19:44

What did Chris Hopson say?

I am confused. He is an executive in the NHS. It is literally his job to persuade people to get double jabbed asap. So he is using his 'good news' to support the idea that double jabbing is v important.

I live in an Indian variant area. they can't get those first jabs into 18+ year olds quickly enough, or the second jab into anyone in groups 6+ all of whom are having their second jabs brought forward . They see it as a race against the variant.

Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 19:46

@Piggywaspushed

It really isn't scarlet . You are in more danger of complications form covid, surely you know that/have been told that?
I know. But who is right?? There are scientists like Yeadon and Cahill and many others that say different. I can’t help worrying that I’ve done the wrong thing.
Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 19:46

I usually end up in hospital at least once a year with pneumonia

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 19:49

Yeadon who said that the vaccines were a plan to depopulate the Earth?

Think you can safely ignore that batshit antivaxxer.

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ichundich · 05/06/2021 19:50

Yes, and then it will probably be 'double jabs for all pupils including primary', or else schools are 'unsafe'.

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 19:52

Scarlet I understand your concerns but please don't listen to scientists like that. You have told us not to listen to 'hysteria' and I think you probably need to heed your own advice as it's about balancing risks. I think you are safest taking every precaution possible against covid in all honesty , understandable as your anxiety about the vaccine is.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 20:00

@noblegiraffe

Scrambled can't even read her own posts now, let alone anyone else's, it seems.

From your post.

"What we think we can start to say now, based on that experience, is that it does look as though the vaccines have broken the chain between catching Covid-19 and potentially being very, very seriously ill and potentially dying.

“There were very, very few people who have had those double jabs and had been able to have that build-up of protection after those jabs.”

Yes I can read my own posts Noble - no need to start attacking me because I'm not getting in to line.If you'd bother to read the article Chris said that many who were in hospital where actually a lot younger and were a lot less at risk of very serious complication, less at risk of death, and what that means is that they were less demand on critical care,”

Obviously they hadn't had double jabs yet - but still didn't need critical care.The point remains. This is not the crisis you are beating the war drums over. You dont need both jabs to go back to work.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 20:00

Actually spat my coffee out at that. Perfectly summed up!

Maybe you should put your false teeth back in then.

Appuskidu · 05/06/2021 20:02

You dont need both jabs to go back to work.

Interesting as I have read a number of posts on here over the last few weeks from people indignant that their boss wants them back in the office and they are refusing to do so until three weeks after their second jab.

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 20:05

This is not the crisis you are beating the war drums over.

I've not said it's a crisis and I've not 'beaten any war drums'.

Again with the straw men.

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Waxonwaxoff0 · 05/06/2021 20:06

@Appuskidu

You dont need both jabs to go back to work.

Interesting as I have read a number of posts on here over the last few weeks from people indignant that their boss wants them back in the office and they are refusing to do so until three weeks after their second jab.

Those people are being ridiculous.
borntobequiet · 05/06/2021 20:07

ah so we're on to all teachers need double jabs now? Well that goal post changed..

What a strange remark. Everyone needs double jabs. It’s the way the vaccines are supposed to be given (apart from the J&J I think).

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 20:09

It's not fun and games being in hospital you know scrambled. Those people were ill enough to meet the threshold for hospitalisation which is very high.

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 20:11

No, piggy it's great news that increasing numbers of young people are in hospital due to the new variant.

Stop being so glass half empty.

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FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 20:15

noblegiraffe

Thanks for all your threads on this.

One of the things that I have found most interesting is how few of those claiming to be arguing the "schools are safe" PoV are not able to put forward an argument for their points.

It always ends in the same way with them making strange noises and name calling.

itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 20:20

@Scrambledcustard

Actually spat my coffee out at that. Perfectly summed up!

Maybe you should put your false teeth back in then.

Eh?

Such a bad attempt at a personal attack it's not even close to funny.

And Fwiw noble isn't banging the war drums. She's pointing something out that's evidenced.

And even if the younger ones aren't needing critical are it's still preventing those who need everyday care to have to wait longer and longer.

Why not have mitigation's in place to try and limit this?

I need major surgery. I've had pharmaceutical intervention for 18 months that's failed. I have to wait 32 weeks - yes 32 weeks before I can even see a consultant who can then put me on the surgery list.

So I'm facing another 18 months of taking pills everyday - yes twice a day everyday that are only meant to be taken for 10 days in acute cases or a lower dose for a max of 6 months.

I've already been on them 7 months.

I would rather masks in schools and some sort of mitigation's than have that extended even further.

Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 20:29

@Appuskidu

You dont need both jabs to go back to work.

Interesting as I have read a number of posts on here over the last few weeks from people indignant that their boss wants them back in the office and they are refusing to do so until three weeks after their second jab.

I can't comment as I haven't seen those threads, I'm just responding to what's being said on this thread.
noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 20:33

I'm just responding to what's being said on this thread.

Really don't think you are. Think you are having a conversation with someone in your head who wants schools closed. Your responses really don't match what is actually being said.

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Scrambledcustard · 05/06/2021 20:34

@noblegiraffe

No, piggy it's great news that increasing numbers of young people are in hospital due to the new variant.

Stop being so glass half empty.

Your purposely misinterpreting the post but that's ok, I know it doesn't fit with your narrative.

Its great news that that those people are not needing critical care. Its great news that there is a link with the vaccine in stopping the seriousness of the virus.

its great news for the NHS and every one else.

TeddingtonTrashbag · 05/06/2021 20:36

ah so we're on to all teachers need double jabs now? Well that goal post changed
Indeed.
And in any case - in my school most have already had two jabs and the youngest teacher (aged 27) had hers two weeks ago.
So... not much to see here.

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