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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
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itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 12:43

@HelloMissus

I think we definitely need to have a conversation about schools in hot spots as part of a wider discussion about them. These hot spots are extremely localised driven by things that are not going away going forward.
100% agree
noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 12:45

You have also shown a general population graph of a week period, compared to a school graph of a six month period

The graphs attached for infection rates all go from 18th April to 29th May. What are you on about?

OP posts:
Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 12:45

@CallmeHendricks

Well, I wouldn't touch that group with a barge pole but I do understand that it will attract people who are obviously anti-vaxx/anti-mask etc.. So, it's not really a representative sample, is it?
I’m not anti-vax. I’m all for personal choice. I’ve had them both and wish I hadn’t! I’m not anti mask either, I’ve worn a mask throughout. My daughter doesn’t wear one, but she’s 11 and just about to finish primary school. I’m pleased she won’t have to wear one when she starts seniors. Although I would be happy for her to wear one in communal areas and public transport. IF masks return to schools, we will comply just as we always have! I don’t have an agenda and I’m not a covid denier. I will follow any rules in place, whilst still having my own opinion on it all- just like you do.
itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 12:45

@Scarletbutnotohara

I would like to see all school staff given priority for the vaccine- to those that WANT it. Better ventilation in schools and smaller class sizes should be a things anyway. Even pre-covid. Not going to happen though. Masks to be worn in communal areas- but not whilst children are seated in their classrooms.
So the same as everyone here.

So why the bleeding hell are you arguing 🤦‍♀️

Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 12:49

No idea tbh HmmGrin

itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 12:49

Scarlett as a housing officer perhaps you could explain why I've got a hole in my ceiling caused by a leak it took a week to get fixed (roof) due to lockdown and despite the fact it would be me and someone doing the job both in masks and in different things rooms if my house I have had to wait since December due to tier 4 and then a lockdown to get an apt for this week (which they didn't turn up too!)

I know you aren't my HO but it's strange how we can't get up our serious issues fixed due to covid but I've been safe in a classroom throughout.

All our HO have WFH. Lucky you eh?!

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 12:54

Vaccine take-up in teachers is really high. 99% in the over 50s. I guess because we have more experience of the effects of covid than other professions?

However you can see from the latest data that there's still a significant proportion of teachers in younger age groups yet to have their first jab, and quite a few in the older age groups who are still waiting for their second.

Delta variant spreading in schools
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Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 12:55

@itsgettingwierd

Scarlett as a housing officer perhaps you could explain why I've got a hole in my ceiling caused by a leak it took a week to get fixed (roof) due to lockdown and despite the fact it would be me and someone doing the job both in masks and in different things rooms if my house I have had to wait since December due to tier 4 and then a lockdown to get an apt for this week (which they didn't turn up too!)

I know you aren't my HO but it's strange how we can't get up our serious issues fixed due to covid but I've been safe in a classroom throughout.

All our HO have WFH. Lucky you eh?!

I honestly don’t know anyone in my profession that is actually happy with the way things have been handled. Because of course, you are right. It’s ridiculous you’ve been treated that way. Similar to so many other professions that have had to work from home (my sister is a social worker and she’s been doing home visits by zoom. Hmm) Quite a lot of last year I was instructed to shield. Not sure how lucky I am, but I have cystic fibrosis and I’ve always been in the CEV category. I would much rather be at work without any restrictions. I should be more worried about covid than I actually am. I am the vulnerable.
Flaxmeadow · 05/06/2021 12:55

The graphs attached for infection rates all go from 18th April to 29th May. What are you on about

The coloured school graph in your OP starts in Sept 2020 (week 36)

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 12:55

Yes, Flax and that was to illustrate that outbreaks in school settings are on the rise again. As I have explained.

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Flaxmeadow · 05/06/2021 13:04

But it doesnt show that. It shows that they are steady in schools ATM and have been for months

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 13:06

I don't think you can read a graph, Flax if that is your conclusion.

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Flaxmeadow · 05/06/2021 13:11

You said, not 15 minutes ago, your graphs in the OP are for a week period. This is not true. Your coloured graph clearly shows a start of week 36 of 2020 (at the bottom bar). A graph that also shows over a 6 or 7 month period that infection rates in schools are now steady and have been for months

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 13:13

I've posted three sets of graphs, Flax.

I don't think you understand how graphs work so I'm not sure it's worth trying to flog this dead horse any further.

OP posts:
Flaxmeadow · 05/06/2021 13:16

FYI
Your graph from your OP
Starting at week 36 (Sept), 2020

Delta variant spreading in schools
noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 13:19

Yes, Flax, I'm aware of the graph that I posted in my OP.

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Flaxmeadow · 05/06/2021 13:24

It shows that infection rates in schools have come down considerably. That they have remained down for months

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 13:29

Yes, Flax, the number of outbreaks in schools did come down considerably because they were shut for three months. If you look at the right hand side of the graph which is where we are now, you will see the little bars getting taller. That means outbreaks are increasing.

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SomeKindOfFloppyWeirdo · 05/06/2021 13:31

This is going down? 🧐
Perhaps my monocle is faulty.

Delta variant spreading in schools
steakandcheeseplease · 05/06/2021 13:35

@noblegiraffe

There is no evidence that the Delta variant is any worse than the other variants.

You need to read the news.

If we had managed our borders and successfully kept this delta variant out/contained, we’d be doing really well. The Kent variant has been beaten to the point where June 21st would have been fine.

I don't watch the news as it serves it purpose to whip up anxiety and fear.

However I do read articles such as

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-latest-update-from-phe-on-the-delta-variant/

Society opened up, infections will rise. Thats completely normal. The PHE need to be more transparent in explaining if those hospitalisations are through no vaccine, one vaccine or both vaccines.

Remember people panicked about the Kent variant too.

Also the 4 million people who took part in the ZOE study in India shown that virus ( Delta ) was controlled by the vaccine.

Also you do have to remember that you have 99% of surviving the virus is you can't with out the vaccine.

BlackeyedSusan · 05/06/2021 13:36

The graph shows lockdowns and school holidays clearly, clusters started to rise before Easter when schools opened to all pupils. And clusters rose again after Easter. There is the beginnings of what could be a continuing trend of increases in the last two or three bars of the graph.

Incidentally dc's school had the first case and self isolation period since March recently. They were badly hit during the Autumn term.

lljkk · 05/06/2021 13:41

I bet vaccine uptake is close to 99% in all 'professions' that require a Uni degree.

CallmeHendricks · 05/06/2021 13:44

"Remember people panicked about the Kent variant too."

Erm, yes, and with good reason. It led to Christmas being cancelled for most of us and schools subsequently closing and us all being in a strict lockdown for months which we are still not fully out of. This Delta variant seems to be making the Kent one look like a walk in the park with regards to transmissibility, so even with many being vaccinated now, for the sake of those who are not, we need to be careful.

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 13:59

I just can't understand the no masks in the classroom for older children brigade . They are still all wearing them pretty uncomplainingly at my school , minus a handful with exemptions. As they are static in classrooms for up to two hours in some schools, this is where things are most likely to spread. A corridor is overcrowded but it is fleeting contact. Our biggest issue is indoor social areas. Hopefully the weather stays nice and they'll all go outside.

Piggywaspushed · 05/06/2021 14:02

Why wouldn't you have had the jab, out of interest scarlet? What's changed? I know a 17 year old with CF and life has been tough for them ...effectively expected to take risks at school every day. He is now jabbed and happy.