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Delta variant spreading in schools

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 04/06/2021 15:38

Not posted one of these threads in a while but the data is starting to get interesting again.

The ONS infection survey data from yesterday shows an alarming increase in infection rates in secondary kids. The PHE survey also shows a jump in outbreaks in schools.

However the infection rates by area show that this is much more of a problem in the North West than e.g. the South West. That suggests that in certain areas, the situation is really bad and in others there's not (yet) a problem. This would suggest a localised approach (the govt are really keen not to talk about tiers).

What is obvious is that there are local variant hotspots, and in those hotspots, covid is running through schools, secondary in particular.

What to do? Stopping the spread of the variant out from those areas should be a high priority. Surge vaccination of adults won't be enough if it is spreading mostly in children. It's evident that the measures taken to stop the spread in schools from Sept-Dec were inadequate (isolation of close contacts only) so it seems clear that in those areas, far more robust tackling of cases in schools is needed -PCR testing not LFT, sending home whole year groups, proactively closing schools instead of as last resort. Schools in those areas already seem to have kept masks. We need to be hearing far more of what they are doing about schools in the news and what to expect.

There are those who would argue that the Delta variant should simply be allowed to spread now, however we know that one vaccination doesn't confer much immunity to it and it would be more prudent to wait until a much bigger proportion of the population are double-vaccinated and more fully protected.

There is also the question of allowing covid to spread through schools and the disruption to education that this would cause. The government announced yesterday that they are only willing to fund a pitiful amount of catch-up support and given that the schools affected are currently restricted to certain areas (and ones that were badly affected last year too), parents and pupils in those areas should not be expected to experience severe disruption caused by unmitigated covid spread if it can be dealt with more effectively. It would seem fair for more covid catch-up funding to be directed to those areas hardest hit but I haven't seen that proposed.

A few positive things: We've just had half term and that usually reduces infection rates in school children. Y11 and Y13 have now left, so secondary schools will have a reduced number of pupils. It's also less than 2 months to the summer holidays.

The Pfizer vaccine has just been approved in the UK for ages 12+. Vaccinating secondary children in those hotspots as a priority could be an option. Priority vaccinations for school staff there should be a no-brainer, I assume that has happened.

Unfortunately the government is currently suppressing data on the number of cases of the Delta variant in schools and there is a legal challenge to get this published. Why they are doing this is unclear. I do hope it's not because they want to pretend that schools aren't an issue until it's too late like they did before, but I don't trust them, for obvious reasons.

Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
Delta variant spreading in schools
OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 09:52

rwalker
You can't outrun covid we need to get to the point where covid is rife but not killing people.
This virus is not going anywhere.

I do agree with this, but surely this is a reason to measures in place.
To invest in schools so that they have windows that open, have good ventilation. smaller class sizes etc.

Not just get on with it like some posters want to do.

steakandcheeseplease · 05/06/2021 09:54

I do feel these threads are akin to war drums now.

Its was expected that their would be a spike as people have just started socialising again. There is no evidence that the Delta variant is any worse than the other variants.

We haven't seen a spike in deaths. Thats what we should be looking at.

The difference this time is that we have the vaccine. There is no need for school closures

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 09:54

@rwalker

You can't outrun covid we need to get to the point where covid is rife but not killing people. This virus is not going anywhere .
Or hospitalising them? We need our hospitals for other stuff too.

We know that a double dose of vaccine is very effective at reducing hospitalisations in this variant so let’s get to the point of everyone being double vaccinated.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 05/06/2021 09:57

There is no evidence that the Delta variant is any worse than the other variants.

You need to read the news.

If we had managed our borders and successfully kept this delta variant out/contained, we’d be doing really well. The Kent variant has been beaten to the point where June 21st would have been fine.

OP posts:
FrippEnos · 05/06/2021 09:58

steakandcheeseplease

The difference this time is that we have the vaccine. There is no need for school closures

Yet the pupils have not been vaccinated, and at the risk of repetition we could put more measures in place to prevent school closures if it goes wrong.

copperpotsalot · 05/06/2021 10:15

Why are we looking at cases? Hospital admissions and deaths are low. Does it really matter how many people have COVID as long as we're both dying or overwhelming the NHS?

CandyLeBonBon · 05/06/2021 10:15

7 positive cases in my kids' school this week.

CallmeHendricks · 05/06/2021 10:18

@copperpotsalot

Why are we looking at cases? Hospital admissions and deaths are low. Does it really matter how many people have COVID as long as we're both dying or overwhelming the NHS?
Because there is a time lag between cases rising the the corresponding rise in admissions and deaths. We're in that inbetween stage right now, so I think there's a need to exercise caution.
roguetomato · 05/06/2021 10:41

@Scrambledcustard,

You say yourself that 0.1% chance of children dying. Yet you say that it's 1 in 10000. That's 0.01%. Did you misquote the number, or you just don't think, but just c&p ing what you have read without thinking it for yourself? Grin

JanuaryJonez · 05/06/2021 11:05

I just saw this headline in this morning's Daily Mail - encouraging:

Covid jabs DO break link between infection and becoming seriously ill:
mol.im/a/9654705

Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 11:15

Does anyone really care that much anymore? I don’t know anyone that does. Just getting on with life now!!

Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 11:16

No way in hell will I be letting anyone near my daughter with that jab. People have gone crazy Grin

Remmy123 · 05/06/2021 11:17

@Scarletbutnotohara only people on this site care.

The ones asking for list of hospitolisations are just weird/sick/obsessed

Mistressiggi · 05/06/2021 11:21

Heaven help us all

Delatron · 05/06/2021 11:23

@JanuaryJonez unfortunately this isn’t the thread for evidence and statistics.

It’s for theorising about what MIGHT happen in the future whilst completely ignoring the impact that the vaccination program is having.

Flaxmeadow · 05/06/2021 11:25

Sorry I haven't read the full thread but your graphs in the OP seem to show

One week for the geographical regions, general population

Six months for the schools graph and with no comparison to the general population

How are supposed to understand anything from this?

itsgettingwierd · 05/06/2021 11:28

It's not ignoring the effect of the vaccination programme.

However people are choosing not to ignore the stats re numbers vaccinated not being high enough yet for a herd immunity approach to work - all people are saying is let's put in mitigation's for this half term to keep schools open and pupils from isolation.

I'm flabbergasted people here don't want measures to prevent their children having to isolate.

People seem to think as long as the schools are officially open it doesn't matter that 50% of the occupants are isolating 🤦🏼‍♀️

Let's do our young people a proper service and so what we can to protect their right to an education. I'm actually quite demoralised by the number of people here who won't campaign for that for our students for the next 7 weeks of term and would rather just "hope" for them instead.

CallmeHendricks · 05/06/2021 11:30

@Delatron, "@JanuaryJonez unfortunately this isn’t the thread for evidence and statistics."

Did you just not see any of the links to evidence and statistics throughout the thread, or does it just suit your argument to ignore them?

CallmeHendricks · 05/06/2021 11:33

If we re-instate some of the mitigations that have been dropped (e.g. masks) for the remainder of this term, then we increase our chances of avoiding any closures and getting to July (June in Scotland) hopefully unscathed.
Then, by September (August) many millions more people will have been fully vaccinated and we will be in a better position to start the new school year properly.
I just don't see what's so "tinfoil hat" about that.

everythingthelighttouches · 05/06/2021 11:33

Hi noblegiraffe

Did you see this thread on twitter from one of the PHE team (Isaac Florence) who produces the data?

I really don’t know what to make of it. I’m not sure the conclusion he comes to is correct.

I’d be really interested to know your thoughts on it.
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1400739255169716225.html

Some highlights..
“ Data from the Case and Incident Management System (CIMS) is hugely biased towards Health Protection Team (HPT) prioritisation. During Covid this means what data is captured there varies through time and by region ...

As Delta variant’s case numbers have risen, there are more outbreaks in all settings and some of those settings are prioritised. For example outbreaks related to schools are intensively managed and so will all end up on CIMS...”

Regulus · 05/06/2021 11:39

@CallmeHendricks

If we re-instate some of the mitigations that have been dropped (e.g. masks) for the remainder of this term, then we increase our chances of avoiding any closures and getting to July (June in Scotland) hopefully unscathed. Then, by September (August) many millions more people will have been fully vaccinated and we will be in a better position to start the new school year properly. I just don't see what's so "tinfoil hat" about that.
This, It's just so simple.

Also I do believe the vaccines are working but I also believe they are not foolproof, even if 5% of the vaccinated population need hospital treatment It's going to cause significant issues to the NHS.

BlackeyedSusan · 05/06/2021 11:46

@TheHoneyBadger

These kind of people are what we’re up against and what government bowed down to. These are the people to blame for excess closures and isolations because they threw massive tantrums at the idea of any safety measures.

Ironically they are the ones who forced closures

This.

To be clear:

I want children safe.

Safe from infection that makes them ill,
safe from long lasting post viral effects,
safe from being the one in whatever number who dies.
Safe from self isolation and the difficulties that brings.

I want schools open

Put safety measures in place and they are more likely to stay open. Fewer will have to self isolate,
fewer will get ill,
fewer will get long term effects,
fewer will die.

cauliflowersqueeze · 05/06/2021 11:47

Dr Jenny Harries, with her comments that schools are all absolutely perfectly safe while the virus was rampaging through schools in Nov/Dec time sickens me. I have no idea why these lies were not challenged more either at the time or since. They had all the data to see for themselves. Meanwhile schools were spending every single day tracking and tracing close contacts and sending kids home and knew full well they were unsafe. And even when LAs such as Greenwich told schools to close a week early before Christmas because it was getting totally out of hand, Williamson stepped in to threaten court action if they dared to go ahead. The arrogance of it all. And yet he has not been held to account for this either. Schools were sitting ducks.

Largely, schools have been treated, both from a health and an education point of view, like shit from beginning to end. It’s been an absolute disgrace.

Thank you @noblegiraffe for your informative OP.

Scarletbutnotohara · 05/06/2021 11:48

Masks are still worn in all schools round here. Is that not the same everywhere then?

SerpentGuard · 05/06/2021 11:49

Dr Jenny " we don't need facemasks or testing in the UK" Harries Hmm

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