Feeling down, is the 21st unlikely?

[WaitroseAldi]

I keep reading on here and on the news that it’s unlikely to happen on the 21st. I feel so down about it. We had so many plans that will have to be cancelled. It feels like some normality then back 10 steps :(

@Drawcilla

Living with it means just that.

Living WITH it. With masks, distancing and better ventilation.

Many seem to think living with it means pretending it doesn’t exist.... which leads to increased spread and lockdowns. The opposite of living with it.

We need to live with it and mitigations.

That's it exactly!

In school, for example, we are 'living with it' - we mitigate what we can, adapt what we have to, send children with symptoms home and get on with our job of education.

'Living with it' is doing the best we can while acknowledging that the risk is still there. It's not the same as 'pretending it's not there'.

Since the current level of lockdown restrictions hasn't been able to stop new variants spreading in communities they have been seeded into we already know mitigations aren't going to be enough when we open up further.

But you are saying exactly this. These are words you stated here. Sorry if it came across nasty but it feels you’re being nasty to others. I’ve seen many scientists who have said we need to be concerned to be honest. Just because you haven’t seen them doesn’t make those who have wrong. Even the phe reports show concern. I remain cautiously optimistic. No one is right or wrong yet because we don’t know.

@Drawcilla

But you are saying exactly this. These are words you stated here. Sorry if it came across nasty but it feels you’re being nasty to others. I’ve seen many scientists who have said we need to be concerned to be honest. Just because you haven’t seen them doesn’t make those who have wrong. Even the phe reports show concern. I remain cautiously optimistic. No one is right or wrong yet because we don’t know.

I am not being nasty

I am saying what I’ve heard and what they’ve said.

I said why I use the channels I do so people can think well I don’t trust R4 methods of selection or whatever

Or maybe they disagree with Ferguson and Pollard but when it comes to what I think I listen to experts. I’m aware of my own limitations not being a scientist. I do listen to them carefully though as it’s usually a good indicator.

And actually my whole point is they are saying we don’t know yet so I’m not sure why I’ve provoked a reaction since you’ve just said the same

@MarshaBradyo

The names I remember Ferguson and Pollard really do say it’s on balance when pushed re June 21. Others whose names I forget more or less the same.

I think you can get Twitter feeds or blogs that match what you think but I prefer to let another system of selection work - ie who ends up on radio.

I haven’t heard anything that sounds as certain as the posts on here and I listen a lot. I’m not overly worried yet but if they were saying the same as the certainty on here I’d feel differently.

That's a good system,

But as far as I understand it one of the unknown factors is the "when".

So maybe if half term does slow things down, it wont be after June 21st that we realise how bad things are. in which case June 21st will go ahead.

Our Prime Minister did end lockdown on December 2nd with 100,000 new cases a week and 12,000 covid deaths the previous month.

If that's the bar, then we won't reach it before the June 14th decision point.

It's important to bear in mind though, that the most senior scientists in the country went on tv with their graph of doom last autumn and were dismissed as "doom-mongers" so scientists do tend to prevaricate more nowadays and wait until the numbers are obvious and have been for some time.

I cherish the ones who don't.

@MarshaBradyo

Are you that low in understanding and nasty you prefer to make a jibe

Sorry but calling someone low in understanding is nasty... it's certainly not a complement in most peoples eyes.

As you was.....

[quote Legoandloldolls]@MarshaBradyo

Are you that low in understanding and nasty you prefer to make a jibe

Sorry but calling someone low in understanding is nasty... it's certainly not a complement in most peoples eyes.

As you was.....[/quote]
As you was...

Ok thanks for this

Yes the post irritated me. A thread can stick to discussion on topic or get personal, it was the latter and it irritated since I hadn’t been so to anyone.

Good you’re getting involved though insightful

Princess I think we’ll know before then? I can’t see one week will do too much to interrupt

It’s May be more moving June 21 than more drastic action

Your welcome 😉 I'm sure sage is hanging on my every word. As a biology graduate I the only thing I know for certain is that the next two weeks will reveal everything we need to know.

viruses dont think, they dont care and therefore have no morals. I can only base that on the epidemiological part of my degree.

I hope my insight from home in my Pjs past miday helps to change the unfolding events.

@Drawcilla

Living with it means just that.

Living WITH it. With masks, distancing and better ventilation.

Many seem to think living with it means pretending it doesn’t exist.... which leads to increased spread and lockdowns. The opposite of living with it.

We need to live with it and mitigations.

Exactly Drawcilla. I feel the same. People are saying "we need to learn to live with it", but they mean ignore it. Not going to happen. The sooner we all realise this and work towards a compromise, the better.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Too many people don't understand the risk we are facing is DESPITE the vaccines

Rightly or wrongly, I really don't think that narrative will fly with most.
There's been so much emphasis put on the vaccines getting us out of it, and folk remember that "vaccinate the vulnerable" has changed to "vaccinate everyone" - and will probably change again to "wait until everyone's had the tweaked vaccines" and then "here's another variant, better wait for another tweak"

People aren't stupid, and at some point it'll change to "Well, if the jabs aren't going to work as hoped, there's no point so we might as well get on with it"
And that's without the risk that some would probably stop getting the jabs altogether, because they simly see no point

If people aren't stupid, they'll understand that crashing the NHS is a bad idea.

If that isn't a scenario we face, then everything I'm saying is irrelevant anyway.

But if the NHS really is under threat, only a fool would plough on regardless.

50/50 still about what will happen. Though not for a second have I ever thought the government plan to do away with all restrictions completely. My suspicion has always been masks on public transport etc will remain for a few months more.

Right now my biggest worry is that the balance won't be right yet. So we end up stepping backwards. Closing some things again. The saving grace at the moment is patients in hospital numbers are level if not dropping slightly still. Vaccinations are working and hopefully we can get enough people done before covid sets in again.

@Drawcilla

Living with it means just that.

Living WITH it. With masks, distancing and better ventilation.

Many seem to think living with it means pretending it doesn’t exist.... which leads to increased spread and lockdowns. The opposite of living with it.

We need to live with it and mitigations.

Agree if we invested properly in tackling it we could live with it much more effectively.

@Drawcilla

Living with it means just that.

Living WITH it. With masks, distancing and better ventilation.

Many seem to think living with it means pretending it doesn’t exist.... which leads to increased spread and lockdowns. The opposite of living with it.

We need to live with it and mitigations.

That's not living. That's a lonely intolerable existance.

Living is accepting (or declining) your opportunity for vaccine and rebuilding social connections,education and business.

We've lived as usual with far nastier illnesses.

Dumb ass BoJo should not have given a set date knowing things can and will change.

He should have used a system where you gradually reduce tiers till you get back to normal.

He's picked a date out of thin air and his actions may disappoint a lot of ppl

That's a lonely intolerable existance.
In what way does using face masks, keeping reasonable distance, being aware of virus safety equate to a lonely intolerable existance?

Pubs and restaurants are open, we can meet friends and family involved, we can celebrate life events, we can travel within reason (and further afield with quarantine), shops, universities and schools are open?

You are trying to set up a false dichotomy - between ignoring the virus and being fully locked down. There is a very large middle ground of 'living sensibly with the virus', that avoids lockdowns, that avoids pointless and avoidable deaths, but does require a small number of generally low level restrictions.

@cantkeepawayforever

That's a lonely intolerable existance. In what way does using face masks, keeping reasonable distance, being aware of virus safety equate to a lonely intolerable existance?

Pubs and restaurants are open, we can meet friends and family involved, we can celebrate life events, we can travel within reason (and further afield with quarantine), shops, universities and schools are open?

You are trying to set up a false dichotomy - between ignoring the virus and being fully locked down. There is a very large middle ground of 'living sensibly with the virus', that avoids lockdowns, that avoids pointless and avoidable deaths, but does require a small number of generally low level restrictions.

What do you mean by 'keeping reasonable distance'?

Whole sectors of the economy cannot function profitably with 'distancing'. You say 'pubs and restaurants are open', but many of them are running at a loss due to restrictions. "Distancing" is not a low-level restriction. Neither are masks.

@IcedPurple is right. All this talk of compromise forever is bollocks I'm afraid. People won't tolerate it.

Distancing is not great for people starting relationships.

I suppose it comes down to what you mean by ‘reasonable distance’. This costs money in a fair few sectors.

Plus masks - I think CDC has said double vaccine you can stop wearing them, could be looked at

@cantkeepawayforever

That's a lonely intolerable existance. In what way does using face masks, keeping reasonable distance, being aware of virus safety equate to a lonely intolerable existance?

Pubs and restaurants are open, we can meet friends and family involved, we can celebrate life events, we can travel within reason (and further afield with quarantine), shops, universities and schools are open?

You are trying to set up a false dichotomy - between ignoring the virus and being fully locked down. There is a very large middle ground of 'living sensibly with the virus', that avoids lockdowns, that avoids pointless and avoidable deaths, but does require a small number of generally low level restrictions.

Lots of smaller pubs have not opened since March last year because they are too small to have enough distancing punters in to cover the cost of opening. Distancing also means only one person can go say say goodbye to a pet being PTS instead of the whole family... or you can't take someone with you when you are about to be told you have a terminal illness. Weddings/funerals also restricted. The measures used to make sure an establishment is Covid safe means they can't see as many customers as usual. Think dentists.... some people can't see one for years now. There is a massive backlog.

My own personal experience here. I have been referred to a mental health crisis cafe. Only allowed 2 visits per week (instead of up to 14 in a fortnight). Only 2 hours allowed, and no other guests can go. No games/activities... all the soft furnishings have been removed, and they are not allowed to serve drinks/biscuits. Literally all I can do is sit at a distance from someone in a mask, and chat.

Face masks... people that are exempt are still getting abuse. How much longer do we put up with this?

@MarshaBradyo

I suppose it comes down to what you mean by ‘reasonable distance’. This costs money in a fair few sectors.

Plus masks - I think CDC has said double vaccine you can stop wearing them, could be looked at

It doesn't just cost money. It makes huge numbers of businesses simply unviable. Most of us couldn't survive if our incomes were slashed by 50% or more and our operating costs remained the same or even higher.

I think a lot of people here - I don't mean you - think 'distancing' just means standing on yellow circles in the Tesco queue, or having two sats to yourself on the train. When in reality it means much of the economy - and indeed society - simply cannot function.

Iced yes I agree. Costs money probably the wrong way to phrase it but I mean slashes income to sustain distances

Also there are knock on effects two those distancing examples you give Iced will have a knock on effect on economy etc.

It's not saying distancing should be stopped. It's saying this needs to be acknowledged.