Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Feeling down, is the 21st unlikely?

242 replies

WaitroseAldi · 27/05/2021 19:40

I keep reading on here and on the news that it’s unlikely to happen on the 21st. I feel so down about it. We had so many plans that will have to be cancelled. It feels like some normality then back 10 steps :(

OP posts:
toolatetooearly · 28/05/2021 14:27

For once I feel very positive about this.I really believe that things will open up fully on June 21st and there will be no more lockdowns.

PrincessNutNuts · 28/05/2021 15:00

I think it's entirely possible that the government will plough on with the open up and then tens of thousands more British people will pay for it with their health or their lives.

Any Prime Minister who could come out of lockdown on December 2nd with new detected cases at over 100,000 a week, thousands being admitted to hospital with covid daily, and 12,000 covid deaths during November can do what he likes.

Plenty on here will still defend him.

Inastatus · 28/05/2021 15:09

@BogRollBOGOF - great post 👍 thank you.

picturesandpickles · 28/05/2021 15:19

@BogRollBOGOF

I was just stating two risks your scenario would be a positive.

PrincessNutNuts · 28/05/2021 15:42

3) Infections are mainly present and mild amongst people in the younger age range at low risk of hospitalisation, and are managed amongst the older age ranges by the vaccine. Infections are also being picked up by targeted surge testing rather than mainly through people being obviously ill. Test events are showing lower than expected risks of superspreading and therefore there is not a significant added risk in further relaxing measures when higher risk behaviour such as education/ work/ socialising in closer groups is already enabled. June 21st goes ahead and continued vaccination reduces the pool of people able to spread the virus as the summer goes on.

Most of the people in hospital are in the younger age groups and/or vaccinated to some degree.

What's happening in the thousands of areas that don't have targeted surge testing to pick up asymptomatic cases?

The events trials were an obvious and complete farce designed to reassure not learn.

We're still in lockdown restrictions with a more transmissible variant so it's not remotely possible that more mixing won't lead to more cases and hospitalisations.

If June 21st goes ahead so will a 4th wave and inevitably once thousands of us have died and the hospitals have cancelled everything but covid again, another lockdown.

SonnetForSpring · 28/05/2021 16:20

PrincessNutNuts, it does look like they will wait again until the public demand restrictions. That's what they usually do as they don't want riots etc. So they have to wait until most people are onside with restrictions. Unfortunately, there seems to be compassion fatigue amongst the public so my guess is we may actually lock down even later this time which many well mean sept and kids missing out on school again. Nothing learned.

RubyFowler · 28/05/2021 16:25

Most of the people in hospital are in the younger age groups and/or vaccinated to some degree.

Not many with two vaccinations plus the two or three weeks it takes to get to full immunity though

I think the news coming out is that vaccine is doing its job, we just need to keep going through the younger age groups.

Overthebow · 28/05/2021 16:27

@SonnetForSpring they are going to be waiting a long time if they’re waiting for the public to get behind another lockdown. We shouldn’t need one, the vaccines are working. And to be honest if they aren’t then we are going to have to do something other than lockdown anyway because we cannot be kept in lockdown forever.

countrygirl99 · 28/05/2021 16:30

Hospital numbers down below 900 again today

BelleBlueBell · 28/05/2021 16:34

@countrygirl99

Hospital numbers down below 900 again today
They are below 900 but that's actually up on the week isn't it? They are on a upward trend at the moment
AlecTrevelyan006 · 28/05/2021 16:39

Admissions are up

Numbers in hospital are down, as is the number on ventilation

Many admissions involve only short stay and many don’t even stay one night

tobee · 28/05/2021 16:42

"The events trials were an obvious and complete farce designed to reassure not learn. "

In what way were they a "complete farce"?

picturesandpickles · 28/05/2021 16:43

[quote Overthebow]@SonnetForSpring they are going to be waiting a long time if they’re waiting for the public to get behind another lockdown. We shouldn’t need one, the vaccines are working. And to be honest if they aren’t then we are going to have to do something other than lockdown anyway because we cannot be kept in lockdown forever.[/quote]
Always happy to hear about the 'something else' option.

At the moment we have two choices of limit spread or collapse our health service. If you have a third way I would be very happy to hear it!

We all hope vaccines will replace all the work of lockdown, and hopefully once we are all fully vaccinated this will be the case, but we are not there yet.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 28/05/2021 16:45

It’s been suggested (hoped?) by some that once the most vulnerable have been vaccinated the perception will shift pretty instantaneously and then people will be happy to crack on and deal with something that has a threat at or below that of common flu. I wasn’t sure, because I could sense that people were taking their lead on feeling safe from what they were told via mainstream information sources.

Well, where are we now? Those who account for 99% of deaths from COVID are almost all fully vaccinated and the vaccines are going into the arms of many way, way down the risk list. What is often misrepresented about the efficacy of vaccination is the reduction in risk it poses.

I have seen much of the discussion about the protection afforded to the disease by vaccination as describing it in percentage terms. The numbers around the Pfizer and AZ vaccines are that 1 jab provides about 80% protection which then jumps to over 90% following the booster shot.

With the dialogue being such, it is easy to think that if you went from unvaccinated to 1 shot protected to, finally, 2 shot protected that you have gone from 0% protected, to 80% to 90% +. However, this is not the actual risk faced by you.

The risk to any individual without vaccination varies, but for most of the population under the age of 60, there was a much less than 1% chance of getting seriously ill and dying from COVID-19. Thus, the protection of 80% then 90% (following the first and second doses, respectively) is in terms of reduction of the already small risk that was posed.

The protection in percentage terms issued by the vaccine manufacturers relates to risk of serious illness versus placebo in the trials - not absolute risk. So, of course, the more vulnerable you were to COVID before vaccination, the greater the net effect on your overall protection is from the jab.

So - as we reach a stage where the most vulnerable are about as protected as they can possibly be, what more needs to change for them to feel sufficiently safe? I argue that the narrative has to change. The Govt - having utilised the media to propagate the sense of fear to corral behaviours - now need to hit reverse quickly to start trying to undo that. Reassure. Demonstrate that people are as protected as is possible and change perceptions.

If we’re waiting for the masses to change their mind, and then have action follow that, we’ll be waiting forever such is the total disparity for most people between the actual risk they face versus the risk they perceive that they face.

picturesandpickles · 28/05/2021 16:46

@tobee

"The events trials were an obvious and complete farce designed to reassure not learn. "

In what way were they a "complete farce"?

Thay have made a lot of assumptions from quite limited testing results, so really they don't have enough data to show what they are claiming, is the gist of the criticisms I saw.

Obviously this is not at all like our government... normally so honest and upfront.

Madcats · 28/05/2021 16:49

I have just read a piece in the Telegraph. I'll summarise:

Public Health England have recorded 5,599 cases of the Indian variant.
12 people have died, of whom 2 were fully vaccinated.

Just three per cent of infections were in people who had received both vaccine doses, with nearly 73 per cent of all cases in completely unvaccinated people and the rest in those who had had one jab. Of 201 people who ended up in accident and emergency with the variant, only five were fully vaccinated.

So hospitals aren't exactly being overwhelmed and people don't seem to be as sick as they were.

picturesandpickles · 28/05/2021 16:51

@Madcats

I have just read a piece in the Telegraph. I'll summarise:

Public Health England have recorded 5,599 cases of the Indian variant.
12 people have died, of whom 2 were fully vaccinated.

Just three per cent of infections were in people who had received both vaccine doses, with nearly 73 per cent of all cases in completely unvaccinated people and the rest in those who had had one jab. Of 201 people who ended up in accident and emergency with the variant, only five were fully vaccinated.

So hospitals aren't exactly being overwhelmed and people don't seem to be as sick as they were.

Well we all know they are not overwhlemed today Hmm Do the Telegraph still not understand it is a matter of what happens in the coming weeks? Honestly, the lack of learning is what is so exasperating. This is the fourth (potential) wave, we really shouldn't be still looking down at our feet.
PrincessNutNuts · 28/05/2021 17:33

@SonnetForSpring

PrincessNutNuts, it does look like they will wait again until the public demand restrictions. That's what they usually do as they don't want riots etc. So they have to wait until most people are onside with restrictions. Unfortunately, there seems to be compassion fatigue amongst the public so my guess is we may actually lock down even later this time which many well mean sept and kids missing out on school again. Nothing learned.
Yeah, it was 3000 a day hospital admissions when they locked down on March 23rd for Lockdown 1.

Having seen how much the NHS could cope with if it cancelled almost everything else it was at the point of about 11,000 admissions a day on January 5th for Lockdown 3.

God knows how many tens of thousands of British people they'll let struggle for breath in hospital this time.

They certainly have no plans to stop that happening.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 28/05/2021 17:48

Important to keep context. This is the only disease we get daily updates on. We forget in UK 1,000 people daily diagnosed with cancer or 1,500 dying. Covid is currently not causing death or significant problems on the NHS so, IMO, we need to get used to it as vaccines make it a mild disease.

GoldenOmber · 28/05/2021 17:54

Well we all know they are not overwhlemed today hmm Do the Telegraph still not understand it is a matter of what happens in the coming weeks?

I think the Telegraph do understand that, but understand in the broader context of needing to watch the next couple of weeks to see what happens with the growth in cases, how it maps on to hospitalisations, and whether it looks like vaccinations and other factors will start pulling down the rate of increase again. And none of that has clear answers yet.

jasjas1973 · 28/05/2021 17:55

I have seen much of the discussion about the protection afforded to the disease by vaccination as describing it in percentage terms. The numbers around the Pfizer and AZ vaccines are that 1 jab provides about 80% protection which then jumps to over 90% following the booster shot

I thought it was 60% (on current data) and 86% against the Indian V and they don't yet know about the booster, which in any case would take 4/5 months to give to grps 1 to 9 or longer given the NHS will be dealing with normal winter pressures.

But its the mishandling thats getting to me , why didn't we put flights from India on the red list far sooner????

For weeks people were allowed to carry the virus from Heathrow to their home towns and why weren't the low vaccination rates picked up sooner?
This lovable Boris clown just seems to want this miseryfest to continue.... this current upsurge was preventable

museumum · 28/05/2021 18:01

@WaitroseAldi what is it you would have to cancel? I’m in Scotland so not sure of the English restrictions currently but We have been camping with other families, Have another couple over inside, I’m going to a museum next weekend, I’ve had three or four dinners out, cinemas are open or opening. The Edinburgh festival is going ahead (albeit in outdoor venues and not the normal fringe).
I’m not about to start licking strangers in nightclubs but a lot of the rest of everything is very near to normal.

LyndaLaHughes · 28/05/2021 18:11

Given how many of the current cases are in schools and it is half term next week- I suspect that could have a very big affect on the numbers. It will be a valuable circuit breaker as this variant is spreading like wildfire in schools.

SonnetForSpring · 28/05/2021 18:23

I'm not sure 1 week is going to have a significant impact

SonnetForSpring · 28/05/2021 18:26

Plus, lots of families will be taking their kids to places over half term so that may not work out very well.