To anyone who turned their jab down.... (anti-vac/Astra haters)

[Vickles20]

From Sky News (Matt Hancock):-

“There is a "high degree of confidence" that vaccines protect against the Indian variant of COVID-19 - but it can "spread like wildfire" among those who HAVEN’T HAD A JAB, Matt Hancock has told Sky News.”

I spent a lot of time on here when I was due to have my first jab and after it. And I was blown away at the amount of anti-vac nonsense and I nearly fell for it to! You nearly got me!!! But, I went and had it and boy, I’m so glad I did.

So to those who’s role in life it is to spread anti-vac nonsense to us. How are you feeling now? Now that the Indian variant is here, all over our country. And you actually chose to skip/delay for another vaccine or totally decided against it. I’m generally interested. As I’m feeling safe in the knowledge that I’m protected. And safe that I listened to medical advice instead of anti-vac nonsense from Mumsnetters, who interestingly were first time posters with their anti-vac propaganda posts.

It is statistically unsurprising that there will not be 100 percent take up of the vaccine - there never has been in this country. So there's no point being angry with each other about it. Some people will never do it.

Having worked with the scientific research community over the years I have been inclined to accept the offer of vaccination for myself and my children against domestic and international diseases and now Covid. But just as no government was prepared or could predict the impact of this pandemic we none of us yet know what risks face the unvaccinated and vaccinated.

At the moment we seem to have more evidence on the impact for the vaccinated individually than we do for the unvaccinated who might contract the Indian or other variants and how that will impact a partially inoculated society. So we are all just guessing in the dark.

That's why I have joined the Imperial college research study to measure antibodies as I will be interested to know personally and to contribute societally. The pandemic will have a long term impact not be gone by Christmas whether we are jabbed or not. This is likely to be around for a very long time like the flu so this debate will run and run - the sooner we learn to have a civilised discussion the better.

Sadly the way the country is currently run means that by a whole bunch of arrogant, misinformed, self-centred idiots
can who ruin it for the rest of us

There. Fixed that for you.

@user1494055864

Matt Hancock is a smarmy lying little twat, who is desperate to get us all to have the jab to line his own pockets and is wetting his pants over the fact that an enlightened few have seen through his absolute scaremongering bullshit.

You aren’t that important

Is it dark in that rabbit hole

im feeling fine thanks , im still not having the astra zenca , im 49 years old and i still dont trust what this goverment is saying about its safety , first its not safe for 30s and under then not for 40 and under , so my age group have to take our chances with it ? no its ok i will have the moderna or pffeizer or nothing at all , this is a goverment that should have stopped flights from india quite a while ago when it was first known cases there were rising rapidly , but no as usual they let them keep coming in and now the indian varient is here , they are utterly incompetent .. and the minute it does look like we will get back to any kind of normal mat hancock and sage start with the fear factor .. as a previous poster said they like the control factor and as for anti vax iv had many vaccines for travel and flu and dd was taken for her mmr as a baby . i just dont want to have an vaccine thats got known fatal side effects for some ,

Oh look! The OP lit the blue touch paper almost 12 hours ago with a goady OP.and hasn't returned. I wonder if they'd like a bigger spoon

@Alonim

This panic over the latest variant is conveniently timed - yes/no?

Just as everything is being unlocked and the government needs to be seen to be sticking to its plan but is also silently shitting itself.

You fell for it OP.

yes this !!

We are not important individually but we are important as a mass of people!

@Sparrowcrane

We are not important individually but we are important as a mass of people!

Only where the new variant will spread like wild fire

i just dont want to have an vaccine thats got known fatal side effects for some

I’d rather risk covid with its definite death rate for some and long term affects for others?

@BluebellsGreenbells

i just dont want to have an vaccine thats got known fatal side effects for some

I’d rather risk covid with its definite death rate for some and long term affects for others?

yep thats right

I've just had my second AZ vaccine. It gave me a sore arm. There's not much medical data on the vaccine for people with my condition (I'm in the middle of very aggressive chemotherapy for lymphoma) as for obvious reasons they didn't test it on cancer patients but I was very happy to have it anyway.

But then you know what, perhaps it gives you a different perspective on 'putting things in your body' and 'side effects' when you are having 100 hours of chemotherapy at a time, and accepting as life-saving medical therapy a cocktail of very toxic drugs which have side effects including hair loss, loss of fertility, loss of sensation in fingers/toes, complete obliteration of my white blood cell count, anaemia, mouth ulcers etc etc etc. I am at the mercy of medical science and my survival depends on the benefits of my treatment outweighing the risks, and I trust my doctors on that point.

I just cannot get animated about the very tiny risk of blood clots in relation to the AZ vaccine, nor the possibility of side effects which effectively amount to a few days feeling like you have flu, at worst.

Vaccination programmes are by their nature about community and collective immunity to protect the weakest. It's not a situation where your 'personal choice' has no effect on others. Personal choice is for what kind of wallpaper you use in your lounge, and it's not an argument that should be leaned heavily on in public health emergencies.

Every person who refuses vaccination is a hole in our collective shield against Covid. It makes me sad and worried that there will be vulnerable people (yes, like me and other cancer patients with no immune systems) who will be put at risk because our very successful vaccination programme is compromised by people who reject perfectly safe vaccines because they don't like being told what to do by the government or feel a bit anxious about it or don't like putting things in their body or don't mind if they personally get covid and don't think it matters.

I declined my jab due to the advice of my medical professional. Hardly anti vax

@Babamamananarama

Agree with you wholeheartedly and sending every positive vibe I can muster your way

@Babamamananarama I totally agree with you. It makes me sad too.
I hope you are feeling better, and wish you well.

baba I really for you and I would make the same decision in your shoes

I don’t want the vaccine - yet - as I’m at a higher risk of familial cancer that frankly terrifies me. I don’t take the pill or drink or a myriad of other things to reduce my risk. I will take a vaccine if longer term shows its safety. I am one of the holes.

I screeched with anger when they didn’t shut the border to India sooner. Why should I have to take a vaccine because of government stupidity?

Baba I agree that getting a vaccination against covid is important on both a personal and societal level to ensure that people who are vulnerable and less protected by the vaccination are afforded protection too. However most people who are concerned about AZ aren’t anti vax and want to be protected both to protect themselves and those around them but simply want access to an different vaccination, with a lower risk of serious side effects. Yes the risk is relatively low but in Norway the clots were observed at a rate of 1 in 20,000 and the U.K. have now acknowledged that it’s at least 1 in 50,000, as someone who is in their 30s and lucky to not to have any underlying conditions I don’t think I’m being selfish to think twice about the potential risk posed by a second dose while the data is still emerging. I initially jumped at the opportunity to be vaccinated. 8 people in my age group have now died from the AZ vaccine and there are safer vaccinations available, the risk is small but more people in my age group will die from the AZ vaccine. People have every right to assess their personal risk with a vaccination that has caused deaths in otherwise healthy individuals / want access to a safer option. Everyone views risk differently and I do strongly believe that people shouldn’t be labelled as being selfish for being concerned about the known risks of a new vaccination. I hope that more people will have access to alternatives to AZ soon, as this would improve remaining uptake in some of the effected age groups. The situation is complex though and what benefits society as a whole is different to individual risk. I wish you all the very best with your treatment and understand your frustrations.

I can understand concern about the deaths attributable to the vaccine, but is it proportionate?

AZ vaccine deaths per million (incidence rate): 9

UK Covid deaths per million people of population: 1910

There are also now estimated to be over a million in the UK suffering long covid. Expressed as a per-million incidence rate that's 14,925 people per million

Of course no one wants to be one of the nine per million who dies as a result of a vaccine, but I know which of those possibilities I'm most alarmed by.

Have a to go with your self righteousness OP

@Babamamananarama

I can understand concern about the deaths attributable to the vaccine, but is it proportionate?

AZ vaccine deaths per million (incidence rate): 9

UK Covid deaths per million people of population: 1910

There are also now estimated to be over a million in the UK suffering long covid. Expressed as a per-million incidence rate that's 14,925 people per million

Of course no one wants to be one of the nine per million who dies as a result of a vaccine, but I know which of those possibilities I'm most alarmed by.

Did those people die of the vaccine or with the vaccine?

Ditto question of Covid.

Depends whether you are closer to 18 or 82 if you're comparing death stats.

I have refused it twice, and don't feel any differently now than when I first refused. You obviously feel much better for getting yours, good for you.
I don't fall for propaganda and don't trust governments.
I'm not anti vax my children had all those well established and properly trialled vaccines.
HTH

Baba I think the difficulty with the AZ vaccine is that the risk of harm from the vaccination increases in the younger age group, who are at less risk from covid which is where the risk v benefits balance on a individual level becomes less favourable. On a societal level AZ will save more lives than it will cost but ethically should we be sacrificing the lives of some young healthy people with a low risk from covid to save those who are more at risk and on a personal level should those of us who fall into this category be pushed into taking the risk to protect others when there are safer vaccinations. For the last year on Mumsnet those of us under 40 who have been concerned about covid have been told our risk is tiny but now the narrative is changing. I’m just hoping more doses of other vaccines can be secured. Not that that resolves the dilemma for those of us who have had a first dose of AZ.

@Suranjeep there are many deaths listed on the yellow card reports for the vaccinations where it’s very difficult to establish if the deaths were associated with the vaccination or would have occurred anyway. The types of clots they are looking at in relation to AZ are very specific and result in low platelet levels and concurrent clots. The clotting condition has now been named Vaccine Immune Induced Thrombosis with Thrombocytopenia. The current incidence rate as of 5th May was 10.9 per million doses with a 20 percent death rate. The incidence is much more common in younger age groups though and is believed to be much higher than this when looking at younger age groups. The data is still emerging and the incidence per million doses has steadily increased each week. In Norway they found an incidence of 1 in 20,000 doses when they vaccinated HCP in their 30s. In some of the younger age groups the risk of serious harm from AZ outweighs the number of ICU admissions prevented by the vaccination when transmission is low, hence the concern among younger people, especially as the data is still emerging.

Everyone will assess risk differently, some people will be happy to accept the risk and others will feel hugely uncomfortable about it and focus on the fact that some people will die unnecessarily from the vaccination and that it could be them. I hate seeing well informed people being labelled as selfish, stupid or unable to assess risk for wanting a different vaccination or turning down AZ especially when the data is still emerging.

I’ve had my first jab and will do my second but it’s funny how people are being emotionally blackmailed into having it.

I can see why some people roll their eyes!

I'd have the vaccine just to avoid Long Covid, which sounds shit, let alone the risk of, y'know, dying. People who can look at what's going on in India and still reckon it makes sense to roll the dice on Covid almost deserve what they'll get, it's just deeply unfortunate that they may compromise the NHS and the freedom of millions while they do it.

Is there any evidence it works anyway.
Chille and The Seychelles have vaccinated far higher percentages than anywhere else, far higher than here, yet they have spikes.
Hasn't done a lot for them.