How long before the UK become India

[Dandylioness1]

The scenes coming from India right now are petrifying.

Takes me back to the scenes from Italy last year.

My question, how long do you think we have until we are seeing similar scenes here.
Do we need to be prepared for this?

@Cornettoninja

"I’m curious about your motivation to push your POV tbh."

I guess my POV is that that throughout this pandemic there have been those that wish to use published data selectively to push their own narrative and then dismiss data that doesn't as either inaccurate or manipulated or even fake.

For example the OP that there are huge numbers of Covid deaths in India without putting it into context that, whilst yes there are larger numbers than say the UK, India has 20 times the population so yes larger numbers are to be expected. This is misleading. When this simple fact is pointed out the response is that well the Indian Government data must be wrong or fake.

Similarly many posters praised China's low Covid death rate as evidence of why tougher lockdown measures like China were needed. Without questioning the accuracy of the Chinese data.

UK data was also questioned but only if arguing the "true" figures were higher. To question that "true" figures were lower would result in accusations of Covid denier or nut job conspiracy theorist.

It is also in the media's interest to sensationalise the terrible situation in India as much as possible because that gets more headlines than the alternative.

The reality is with a new virus nobody really knows what figures are over or under inflated and in which country and probably never will. Each country also has their own methods and definition on data collection. To argue that UK data is transparent and accurate whilst Indian data can't be trusted sits uncomfortably with me, with I think superiority and patronising undertones - because well "they're Indian so you can't trust the data" when in reality India is a strong, modern and sophisticated country.

Oh come on India has 25 million births that are never even registered so how can you know what deaths are even in normal times. 800 million poor live on less than $2 a day, they won’t even make it to hospital no matter what they die of. Nearly all UK births and deaths are recorded, India is on another level in comparison.

m.timesofindia.com/india/25-of-indian-births-not-registered/articleshow/12104158.cms

@Baileysforchristmas

But there are 25 million births in India per year in total. Are you saying that no births are recorded in India at all??

This just confirms my point about posters using data selectively to suit their own narrative.

www.unicef.org/india/key-data

No i’m not saying but millions are not registered

Global progress is driven largely by great strides in South Asia, particularly in Bangladesh, India and Nepal. In India, the proportion of registered children rose from 41 per cent in 2005-2006 to 80 per cent in 2015-2016. In recent years, UNICEF has worked with the Government of India to prioritize birth registration across states by increasing and improving access to registration centres, training officials and community workers and rolling out public awareness programmes, particularly amongst the most vulnerable communities.

However, that does not mean that the situation is acceptable in South Asia. Almost 51 million children under 5 remain unregistered, the majority living in India and Pakistan.

25 million under 5’s are not registered

@Baileysforchristmas

OK so now we both agree it's not 25 million unregistered births but "millions".

I will try to better define "millions". On the basis that the registration of births rose from 41% in 2004 to 80% twelve years later in 2016 then assuming no further progress in registrations were achieved in the last 5 years that would give 5 million unregistered births per year.

I completely agree with you that large numbers of unregistered births is unacceptable across SE Asia as it adversely impacts those children's futures (job, marriage, education, access to other support from the state etc.

But my main point remains about posters using data selectively and dismissing data that doesn't to disingenuously support their own narrative.

If you don’t register births you can’t register deaths, 25 million with no birth certificate means they won’t have a death certificate, that’s a huge number, so no the numbers in India won’t be correct.
99.99% of UK births and deaths are recorded so no we can’t hide the figures, we have access deaths that could be Covid. You can’t check India’s access deaths as the data won’t be correct.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/indian-delegation-at-g7-in-london-forced-to-self-isolate-for-covid

Did they not have to quarantine like everyone else?

Plus the mess with the Australian cricketers who went to India to play in tour and caught it too. And none of them are allowed home for the foreseeable future anyway.

823 cases in the UK so far, 25% of them community acquired apparently.

But the government wants summer holidays abroad to go ahead??? Yes, let's open up those borders even more...

Just so we can close most of the economy again in the autumn and damage our children and young people even more, and damage all of our mental health even more.

So a very few people can go abroad because they deserve/need/want to.

Unlikely to happen again here.

Indian hospital director on Radio 4 yesterday saying that the so called Kent variant is still the dominant strain in India. The Indian double mutation less prevalent.
They have a dreadful public healthcare system. virtually no oxygen supplies and their vaccinations are a drop in a vast ocean.
We’ve been through the peak with the Kent variant, hopefully India’s red list status will protect to a good degree against the double mutation. Our health service is excellent, we had oxygen and our vaccination programme has exceeded expectation. New vaccines against variants should be available by autumn, with additional funding announced today.
We won’t be going back there, IF we stick to the “roadmap” and people take personal responsibility when travelling and attending public events going forward.

We’ve been through the peak with the Kent variant,

We've been through A peak.

The U.K. covid strategy is still not set up to adequately combat it, so there is likely to be another one. (Unless once we open up further a different variant achieves dominance.)

@CarrieAntoinette

We’ve been through the peak with the Kent variant,

We've been through A peak.

The U.K. covid strategy is still not set up to adequately combat it, so there is likely to be another one. (Unless once we open up further a different variant achieves dominance.)

What strategy do you suggest?

But the government wants summer holidays abroad to go ahead??? Yes, let's open up those borders even more...Just so we can close most of the economy again in the autumn and damage our children and young people even more, and damage all of our mental health even more.

There are plenty of people /families with young children whose household income is derived from the travel/transport industry. Many of those households are already suffering economic damage and suffering with mental health issues because of the income they have already lost and the continued uncertainty about if they will have jobs to go back to later this year (hopefully).

I'm not suggesting it would be a good idea that the UK Borders should be thrown wide open right this minute with no controls, but OTOH those that suggest "stop holidays for a bit longer, you can't be too careful" (where a bit longer is rarely defined) need to be mindful that such a policy risks continuing to inflict real damage on thousands of households in the UK.

So a very few people can go abroad because they deserve/need/want to

Some people genuinely do need to travel to earn a living.

@AlecTrevelyan006

Suppression. Find clusters, Test widely, Trace contacts, Isolate the infected adequately and for long enough, and Support people to do that. Effective quarantine of anyone coming in.

I've been very bullish about our vax progress to date and have had one jab and more to come. Then this recent report from Chile has given me pause to thought. One hopes (if that's the right word) the reason is that the Chinese vaccine is very poor but I'm not sure it's all that clear at the moment why, though the i article points heavily to opening your borders too quickly when there's a large portion of the population particularly the young are unvaccinated.

inews.co.uk/opinion/chile-covid-vaccine-success-holidays-uk-travel-restrictions-985916