I dont think life will be normal for years and years

[ssd]

Its the pictures coming out of india, with the recent festival and hundreds of people crammed together, during a second covid wave. This virus will just mutate forever, its too global to contain. Its just never going away. What the hells going to happen to us or our kids futures?
I can't see a way out of this. Science can't catch up, its too far spread to ever get a handle on it.

Science just can’t win.

On another thread there’s a whole bunch of Luddites (who clearly couldn’t tell you what an antibody is let alone describe the years of research that have gone into the development of the current vaccines) insisting that science has moved ‘too quickly’.

I heard an interview with the woman who heads the Oxford group and felt so depressed that so many people are dismissing the decades she’s devoted to this vaccine because they just feel in their (stupid, poorly-educated) gut that it’s happened too fast.

And now there’s someone who thinks science can’t keep up.

Science is not failing here. It’s clear what we’re actually seeing is the failure of our education system which has somehow turned out a vast number of people who have (I assume - charitably in some cases) completed primary school and yet have no grasp whatsoever of basic scientific principles.

I’d despair about that if I were you. The consequences are far more long-reaching than the current crisis.

The 1918 pandemic never ended, the virus just mutated to be a bit less harmful but it still killed a lot of people each year. We just stopped talking about it. If you get flu now, it will be a mutated version of the one that killed millions 100 years ago.

This will be the same.

I feel the same way sometimes, OP. I just try think about some of the potential benefits of things being scaled back a bit longer. A bit more personal space for everyone. Not having to attend in person so much at things that can be done virtually. A&E not being overwhelmed every weekend due to drunken incidents. People shopping locally. Flying less. Motivation for new business ideas and innovations. Some change is good in IMO.

@MissTrip82

Science just can’t win.

On another thread there’s a whole bunch of Luddites (who clearly couldn’t tell you what an antibody is let alone describe the years of research that have gone into the development of the current vaccines) insisting that science has moved ‘too quickly’.

I heard an interview with the woman who heads the Oxford group and felt so depressed that so many people are dismissing the decades she’s devoted to this vaccine because they just feel in their (stupid, poorly-educated) gut that it’s happened too fast.

And now there’s someone who thinks science can’t keep up.

Science is not failing here. It’s clear what we’re actually seeing is the failure of our education system which has somehow turned out a vast number of people who have (I assume - charitably in some cases) completed primary school and yet have no grasp whatsoever of basic scientific principles.

I’d despair about that if I were you. The consequences are far more long-reaching than the current crisis.

So much this. So many on mn fit this.

@fairlyurgentdresshelpneeded

A lot of people on this thread need to turn off the sodding news and go for a walk.

Yeah you're probably right. But a lot of people on this thread also need to come off their high horse....

@Crowsaregreat

The 1918 pandemic never ended, the virus just mutated to be a bit less harmful but it still killed a lot of people each year. We just stopped talking about it. If you get flu now, it will be a mutated version of the one that killed millions 100 years ago.

This will be the same.

There are several different strains of influenza virus. Some will be mutated versions of that one, but not all.

The principle is correct however. We aren’t going to be able, ultimately, to control COVID. We might gain some protection through vaccination and as with flu vaccination, we might eventually have annual vaccination programmes that attempt to predict the strains for that year.

But at some point, we will have to let go of lockdown and other means of attempted control outside of vaccination. I hope we don’t have to wait too long before we reach that point.

@fairlyurgentdresshelpneeded

A lot of people on this thread need to turn off the sodding news and go for a walk.

I agree, or listen to a podcast/watch a film and stop obsessing about all things Covid and what may or may not happen. Maybe even hide this topic.

I think we will muddle through eventually.

It does feel endless though.

I think we should do a worldwide roll out to older people and share the vaccines around and let healthier younger people just get it. I’m one of those younger people by the way.

That way the world can obtain herd immunity faster overall

Who says the vaccines don't work against this variant?

the doom sayers, they jump on the negative first....

Life will be normal.

That doesn't mean it will be the same as precovid. Simply because things have changed - the very definition of normal has changed. That will be a permenant thing in some respects.

Staying apart, sticking to your household, staying at home.. will all become second nature. And that is great! Instead of holidays and restaurants we will enjoy jigsaws and cooking at home. Instead of socialising, we will focus on our own household! Single people will learn to be happier on their own

I really don't know if this was tongue in cheek or serious but thank you for making me chuckle very hard. This tickled me so much (sorry). I think I was just in need of letting off some steam - either that or I am finally losing my sanity.

Single, already happy on my own (sometimes), do love a good jigsaw I'm ashamed to say, but equally I am getting on a plane as soon as I can and intend on having a lot of wild adventures, if not this year then next. It was the right thing to make sacrifices to protect the vulnerable and elderly at the beginning of this. There comes a point where life has to move on though. Death is a part of life - a horrible one but none of us can cheat it. And yes, I've lost people in the last year and no I don't want to lose anyone else but then there was never a guarantee I wouldn't even pre-Covid. Pandemics pass. What we can achieve with science is incredible. The future has lots of good things in it - and I'm not just talking about jigsaws. I do know why people feel gloomy - the talk of new variants is so relentless but you need to take it all with a pinch of salt. Even if we have another bad wave, well, we hunker down and get through it as best we can and we know it passes in 3-4 months.

@Crowsaregreat

The 1918 pandemic never ended, the virus just mutated to be a bit less harmful but it still killed a lot of people each year. We just stopped talking about it. If you get flu now, it will be a mutated version of the one that killed millions 100 years ago.

This will be the same.

That's what I thought happened www.washingtonpost.com/history/2020/09/01/1918-flu-pandemic-end/

Plus it was a global pandemic - as troops went home it could be tracked along trainlines in some countries.

I think it's fantasic we've come up with vaccines that works so well so quickly and in UK got them into people at such a fast rate.

I think there was talk of them already testing a flu/covid annual vaccination -www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/hundreds-volunteers-needed-britains-first-5232790

We've got better treatments for covid already which helped improve survial rates -www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56508369 and vaccines which reduce hopsital admissions.

There's a lot of postive covid news out there.

There is negative - hospital waiting lists and delays in cancer and other treatments and illnesses are having a negative impact on many people's lives - and there it will take years and money to get back to pre pandemic levels but we did reduce waiting lists before so with poltical will and cash hopefully can again.

Perhaps when Scotland opens more things up you can feel more positive.

I heard an interview with the woman who heads the Oxford group and felt so depressed that so many people are dismissing the decades she’s devoted to this vaccine because they just feel in their (stupid, poorly-educated) gut that it’s happened too fast.

I think it’s ok to be concerned that despite the time the scientists have spent on the vaccine they didn’t know the blood clotting risk would occur and still don’t know why it occurs or who is more at risk. It makes you wonder what else they don’t know.

@Crowsaregreat

The 1918 pandemic never ended, the virus just mutated to be a bit less harmful but it still killed a lot of people each year. We just stopped talking about it. If you get flu now, it will be a mutated version of the one that killed millions 100 years ago.

This will be the same.

I actually think it’ll be more akin to TB at its height (from a European perspective) so visibly circulating but with reasonable odds of avoiding/recovery. We have ongoing concerns about TB vaccination (it’s particularly shit statistically) and antibiotic resistance. That’s been going on for years but wasn’t on most peoples radar.

The biggest threat from covid has always been the fact that it’s a completely new virus that everyone on the planet was vulnerable to so vaccines make a huge dent in the overall problem.

@Fruityfriday

I feel the same, I think normal will be SD and masks and queuing. Can't see us ever going back to how it was.

Where are you all still queuing?

If you look at history, the likelihood is this will come to an end, otherwise the Black Death would have wiped us all out. AFAIK 2 years is about average for a pandemic isn't it? Plus we have the vaccines. I think things will look quite a bit different in a years time and will be back to normal in 2 years no masks etc.

We need to be getting on with life though, not this half life lived in fear. I think once everyone in this country has been vaccinated things will start to improve. If new variants evade the vaccine completely, people might just take their chances because we can't have years of lockdown. Anyway scientists will have more to work with already. And the virus might mutate into being milder.

Where are you all still queuing?

We went up the town at the weekend and there were queues to get into some shops - some have very low numbers allowed in. Local chemist is worst only two people allowed in and the number of people who go in with a friend to wait for a prescription is surpingly high.

On plus side to our suprise they were serval new shops opening - and a new nighclub setting up which I personally have less interest in.

Still have to wait outside for orthodontist, dentists and vets - which without a car can be a pain when it wet/cold though GP if you have an appointment you can sit in their waiting room though everything else is still done through outside window. Though being seen at all by some is still difficult to manage so perhaps waiting outside is more tolerated and those with cars lesss impacted -though I hope is gone by next Autumn.

@ssd they do yes, but I think many come from a good place, myself included, in seeing your anxiety and trying to talk you down. I think there are several people who post quite regularly very doom laden ops. Not sure you are one op.
But it can get hard for all to read.

I think someone said upthread about more people pass away due to poverty. Yet we don't really take note of that
Now, that we have something which had picked people off, indiscriminately of wealth, which has stopped people's normality, ended careers, and left us all walking round shell shocked, of course there will be people who get on with it, and those who go inwards

That was why I asked had you spoken to a GP? I've had my own MH issues. Not with Covid but even so, in May last year I found myself, sitting down in my shower and crying at the madness of all of the lockdown and stuff. Couldn't stop myself. It just overwhelmed me. At that point, I stopped reading the MSM. I stopped watching the briefings. I decided to wait and see. Took up gardening. Spent time playing boardgames and singing and dancing in the living room with my DC's (I think my teen will need therapy). I thought, there's absolutely sod all I can do right now. It's out of my hands. All I can do, is as I'm told, stay at home, don't break rules.
Made lots of phonecalls. Every day we would all phone each other. Put the odd bottle of wine on a doorstep when it was a friend's birthday. Had a few put on mine too.

That's all you can do. But it is looking far, far better. Yes the Indian Variant is a variant of interest, I don't think it's been marked as a full concern yet. Even so, it's not thought to ruin the vaccine.
India is a huge place, with some very poor people in it who lack basic healthcare. Which is why the deaths will go up. There are still some groups who don't feel the vaccine is allowed due to what it contains being against their beliefs. So obviously, they will be potentially far more vulnerable.
But the vaccine, this wonderful scientific miracle we can be proud of. Yes you can still catch it. Yes it can be caught off you. But hospital admissions and deaths are far far lower than the end of February.
It will tail off.

Please speak to a friend. Stop looking at MSM as it is loving the click bait hits right now.

I heard an interview with the woman who heads the Oxford group and felt so depressed that so many people are dismissing the decades she’s devoted to this vaccine because they just feel in their (stupid, poorly-educated) gut that it’s happened too fast

My mum, after a horrible experience giving birth to my sister, was offered Thalidomide (being a stupid and poorly educated woman in your opinion!) she refused and had an equally horrible time giving birth to a very healthy me.

Science is fantastic but it is only based on what they know now, i ve had my first AZ and will happily have the 2nd........ based on what is known now - should the clotting issue start effecting 1000s, i'll reconsider.

Aside my mum was a nurse and far from stupid, as are many who have questioned vaccines (and other medications, with good reason), inc highly educated scientists in many other countries.

@Crowsaregreat

The 1918 pandemic never ended, the virus just mutated to be a bit less harmful but it still killed a lot of people each year. We just stopped talking about it. If you get flu now, it will be a mutated version of the one that killed millions 100 years ago.

This will be the same.

This is what gets my goat about all the talk about 'mutations'. Of course, it will mutate, we know that all viruses mutate over time, however, they don't always mutate to be worse than the original virus.

Yes.

I think what we probably need to remember is that for most of the world and for most of history, incurable infectious diseases have always been and continue to be a very real threat. People find ways of living with them, mitigating the worst effects, and carrying on with their lives.

I'm not worried about mutations - the current vaccines do very well still with the mutations so far and boosters can be made as needed, far quicker than the initial vaccines were made and tested... and we'll all (broadly, those that have had a vaccine or covid or both) have some level of immunity, unlike when it was a novel virus which was the big problem.

I honestly believe we're looking at total normality for every country, even third world ones by 2023. For the UK, we'll be looking at 'pretty much' normal, or normal enough by 2022

I'm happy with that considering the shite we've all been through

I’ve spent much of the last year worrying about covid as I have bad health anxiety and it’s a tough situation. However I do believe things will get better and there is lots of hope on the horizon. Right now in this country we are lucky and things are going relatively well, the restrictions are tough but cases are relatively low and the weather is getting better. I’ve started some cbt to tackle my anxiety and I’m trying to enjoy the sunshine, seeing some friends and family outdoors and living in the moment instead of worrying about what may or may not happen. Even the scientists don’t know which way things will go so aim to reduce your news consumption, stop focusing on the news that reconfirms your fears and try and enjoy the simple things in the here and now. Worrying changes nothing and we will find a way through this, no pandemic has lasted forever. Our vaccination programme is going well and is thought to help protect against serious illness and death even for the worrying variants. Try and look for the good news and the lovely things around you.

I think what bothers me is international movement.

Post 1918 and the spread of the flu, populations settled down and were fairly static. Of course there were travellers, but absolutely nothing like the scale of today.

The Ebola outbreak a couple of years ago was quickly contained because the people in the affected areas were not minded to travel and in fact it was aid workers who might have been the weak link.

International travel seeded the coronavirus pandemic around the globe (tautology?!) and unchecked travel will do the same with variants and other previously unencountered diseases.

So in the 1920s we had naturally closed borders, but post 2020 we need, if not closed borders, then virus-policed ones.