Anybody been invited and declined the jab?

[Devlesko]

Beginning to think I did the right thing now.
Anybody else?

*What would you do?

What do you want to happen next*

I want lockdown to end immediately and never again be introduced. I want vaccines to be voluntary, and no pressure to be applied to anyone who doesn't want to take it. I want to see NO vaccine passports in any shape or form. I want government to start being honest and reporting things accurately. There will have to be an independent investigation into their corruption and cronyism, and who stands to benefit from all this including SAGE (Whitty has tons of shares in vaccine firms etc). I want a full, frank, open scientific debate where views from all spectrums are welcomed rather than shunned.

Covid has a more than 99% survival rate. It's not the bubonic plague. It will blow over as all epidemics do. In the meantime we will have to live with it. Better treatments will be found, are have already been found. 'Vaccines for everyone' is not the answer. It never was. And why it's being pushed so hard by the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Gates needs serious scrutiny.

@LastChanceToChange

There is no reason to expect that If I get subsequent covid infections it will be worse than the first two times. All evidence shows me that my body responds to covid very well (like 99.5% of people in my demographic). The second infection, which didn’t even develop into a proper illness suggests that my body has learned to deal with covid even better than the first time around. I have no reason to fear it.

Hypothetically, it may mutate enough to present a new risk, but that applies to vaccine induced immunity too.

And it could also happen with other viruses like influenza, which I had a few years ago, which incidentally was much, much worse than covid. I don’t worry worry about that hypothetical day-to-day though. And I won’t with covid either.

[quote Terracotta9]@LastChanceToChange

There is no reason to expect that If I get subsequent covid infections it will be worse than the first two times. All evidence shows me that my body responds to covid very well (like 99.5% of people in my demographic). The second infection, which didn’t even develop into a proper illness suggests that my body has learned to deal with covid even better than the first time around. I have no reason to fear it.

Hypothetically, it may mutate enough to present a new risk, but that applies to vaccine induced immunity too.

And it could also happen with other viruses like influenza, which I had a few years ago, which incidentally was much, much worse than covid. I don’t worry worry about that hypothetical day-to-day though. And I won’t with covid either.[/quote]
and as you get older and more vulnerable?

Ask me in fifteen years, lol

But in April 2021, covid is a known quantity for me.

@Wildswim That is exactly how I feel too.

@Wildswim

I agree with your summary.

It’s all very well saying the risk is whatever, but that is meaningless if it’s you and you can’t work again etc

But isn't that the same for all medication, even the so called 'safe' meds? DH was prescribed statins and had a severe reaction to them - he was in agony, he could hardly walk, wasn't able to work and begged me to take him to the walk in centre, which is so unlike him. He's never fully recovered and chose to take his chances with high cholesterol than statins.

Every medication is going to have an adverse effect on someone who takes it, regardless of how long it's been available, how many people have taken it etc.

@Wildswim

*What would you do?

What do you want to happen next*

I want lockdown to end immediately and never again be introduced. I want vaccines to be voluntary, and no pressure to be applied to anyone who doesn't want to take it. I want to see NO vaccine passports in any shape or form. I want government to start being honest and reporting things accurately. There will have to be an independent investigation into their corruption and cronyism, and who stands to benefit from all this including SAGE (Whitty has tons of shares in vaccine firms etc). I want a full, frank, open scientific debate where views from all spectrums are welcomed rather than shunned.

Covid has a more than 99% survival rate. It's not the bubonic plague. It will blow over as all epidemics do. In the meantime we will have to live with it. Better treatments will be found, are have already been found. 'Vaccines for everyone' is not the answer. It never was. And why it's being pushed so hard by the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Gates needs serious scrutiny.

I agree up to a point

I want no more lockdowns. Never again.
And if a small group of people take a risk and opt out and end up in hospital or worse I don’t want to hear about it. Not in daily figures or scare campaigns.

But I depart from how to ensure it. Vaccination is the way to avoid overwhelming hospitals. If you have low take up we don’t move on as quickly.

@Roonerspismed

That’s surely exactly it

We know a very small number of people will suffer serious side effects to the vaccines and it very much is a case of “collateral damage”.

It’s all very well saying the risk is whatever, but that is meaningless if it’s you and you can’t work again etc

Can I ask how old you are?

It’s worth looking at relative risk before feeling overly anxious.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

But isn't that the same for all medication, even the so called 'safe' meds?

There’s a difference between administering medication to someone who already has a condition, and vaccination, which is a prophylactic measure administered to someone who is otherwise healthy.

In the first case, it’s much easier to accept the risk of side effects if you’re already ill. If we look at an extreme example like chemotherapy, which has horrendous side effects which are only acceptable because the alternative is a quicker death from cancer.

Statins are an interesting example because in some respects they too are a prophylactic measure, and have garnered quite a lot of controversy over the last few years which I’m sure you’ve become aware of. Sorry to hear about your DH.

More broadly on this topic, because we are in a pandemic, I think people have a much higher threshold for accepting side effects from the vaccine than they would in normal times.

Arguably, that’s appropriate, because this is an emergency situation.

I do have concerns that this new baseline for acceptable vaccine side effects may remain, even after the pandemic is under control. It’s worth keeping an eye on this.

@Terracotta9 Thanks. DH is one of the the unlucky ones, all the statins he tried had the same effect, although to a lesser degree than the first one.

I accept it's really difficult as all vaccines have the potential for side effects. My Mum couldn't have the tetanus jab and neither can one of my friends it brought them out in unbearable hives. I think part of the problem is that so may people are having the covid vaccine in one go and therefore any potential side effects are showing up in one go.

I also suspect some 'side effects' are nothing to do with the vaccine. I had mine on Sunday, felt rough on Monday, fine on Tuesday and have had achy eyes for a few days. I know it's more likely to do with my hayfever (blocked nose and sinuses) and eye strain through looking at screens for far too long each day but of course I'm worrying it's the vaccine!

@Wildswim

*What would you do?

What do you want to happen next*

I want lockdown to end immediately and never again be introduced. I want vaccines to be voluntary, and no pressure to be applied to anyone who doesn't want to take it. I want to see NO vaccine passports in any shape or form. I want government to start being honest and reporting things accurately. There will have to be an independent investigation into their corruption and cronyism, and who stands to benefit from all this including SAGE (Whitty has tons of shares in vaccine firms etc). I want a full, frank, open scientific debate where views from all spectrums are welcomed rather than shunned.

Covid has a more than 99% survival rate. It's not the bubonic plague. It will blow over as all epidemics do. In the meantime we will have to live with it. Better treatments will be found, are have already been found. 'Vaccines for everyone' is not the answer. It never was. And why it's being pushed so hard by the likes of Tony Blair and Bill Gates needs serious scrutiny.

I agree with all of this.

Yes, the long covid thing. So the same post-viral fatigue and other symptoms that can arise from other viral illnesses. Nothing new IMO. DH had a really horrible viral illness about 3 years ago - it left him without taste / smell for months and his hearing took 12 months to get back to normal. The GPs and other HCP couldn't give a stuff - they dismissed it as a post-viral thing he had to live with.

Whitty has tons of shares in vaccine firms etc

Where is this being reported? I know Sir Patrick Vallance has GSK shares because he used to work for them and I believe he sold a lot when he became CSA but I haven't read the same about CW.

Could you give a source? (I'm genuinely interested.)

@TroubleUsedToBeMyBusiness

Yes, the long covid thing. So the same post-viral fatigue and other symptoms that can arise from other viral illnesses. Nothing new IMO. DH had a really horrible viral illness about 3 years ago - it left him without taste / smell for months and his hearing took 12 months to get back to normal. The GPs and other HCP couldn't give a stuff - they dismissed it as a post-viral thing he had to live with.

Indeed. I was fatigued for months last time I had flu. After covid I had about 6 weeks of joint pain and when I mentioned long covid to both GP and physio they wouldn't entertain it.

The NIHR and UK Research and Innovation (UKRI) have funded four new research studies to better understand and address the longer term effects of COVID-19 on physical and mental health.

The new research projects, which have been awarded a total of £18.5 million, will help to better understand the causes, symptoms and treatment of what is known as ‘long COVID’.

Approximately one in 10 people with COVID-19 continue to experience symptoms and impaired quality of life beyond 12 weeks.

Off topic but update on travel passports.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-coronavirus-passports-for-foreign-travel-will-be-available-as-soon-as-possible-12283777

Approximately one in 10 people with COVID-19 continue to experience symptoms and impaired quality of life beyond 12 weeks.

Where is this data from?

The most recent data I could find is from this March 2021 article in Nature, which reports that 2.3% of people still experience symptoms at 12 weeks.

@Terracotta9

That estimate is likely from the most recent ONS report

Prevalence of long COVID symptoms in the general population

22.1% (95% CI: 21.2% to 23.2%) of respondents were still reporting at least one symptom at 5 weeks following COVID-19 infection, while 9.8% (7.4% to 13.1%) had symptoms at 12 weeks (Note that the denominator is all respondents testing positive for COVID-19, not
just those with symptoms at the time of the positive test)

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/962830/s1079-ons-update-on-long-covid-prevalence-estimate.pdf

Thanks @oldegg123

I want no more lockdowns. Never again.
And if a small group of people take a risk and opt out and end up in hospital or worse I don’t want to hear about it. Not in daily figures or scare campaigns.

This is chilling.

@anyoldtime

*I want no more lockdowns. Never again. And if a small group of people take a risk and opt out and end up in hospital or worse I don’t want to hear about it. Not in daily figures or scare campaigns.*

This is chilling.

How is it chilling?

I thought you decliners wanted to leave out the scare campaigns?

If you opt out you can’t expect the rest of society to modify their behaviour for you.

Can you?

We will move past this stage thank god and emphasis will be economic stimulus not trying to get us to stay home.

We move on from focus on just Covid finally.

Absolutely, deaths from Covid should not be singled out and reported. We don't report deaths from pneumonia, flu, cancer, or heart disease. Covid is just another disease.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees

Whitty has tons of shares in vaccine firms etc

Where is this being reported? I know Sir Patrick Vallance has GSK shares because he used to work for them and I believe he sold a lot when he became CSA but I haven't read the same about CW.

Could you give a source? (I'm genuinely interested.)

I have seen that claim about Whitty before. I think it is untrue.