Anybody been invited and declined the jab?

[Devlesko]

Beginning to think I did the right thing now.
Anybody else?

[quote KurtWilde]@MaxHanno what an awful post. Describing someone's death as 'anecdotal'?? Have a word with yourself. [/quote]
Absolutely this. Apalling post!

*Mn is not real life.
*
What a strange statement! Of course MN is real life, because if it wasn't your statement Parker231 wouldn't be real either

@sunshine7981

Those saying it is a personal health decision of course that is your choice. However, there is clear evidence that vaccination reduces transmission - so as with all other vaccination the unvaccinated are relying on others to reduce their risk of catching the disease. Starting these threads and responding to them with irrational reasons for declining is irresponsible and feeds into the anxiety of people who do not understand how vaccines work. If you have health or other reasons for not vaccinating it is a free world but why the need to spread fear? I know lots of scientists through my work and they are ALL getting the vaccine ASAP

There is no clear evidence at all that the experimental vaccines reduce tranmsission. Quite the opposite. Some medics have warned that the recently vaccinated are "shedding", and are more prone to passing it on. There are several reports (if you read Telegram and other uncensored reports) that the jabbed are spreaders. Meanwhile there is no evidence that healthy people (ie asymptomatic) are infectious. That's one of the rumours that spread to label us "dirty".

...people who do not understand how vaccines work.

I think most people up to now do understand how vaccines work. They introduce a minute fragment of the thing and the body builds antibodies. These so-called vaccines do not work this way, and that's why many doctors don't use the word vaccine on them. They do not fit the definition of the word.

My reasons for not wanting to take this jab are not irrational, and I do not want to spread fear; quite the opposite. I would dearly like to pass on the confidence that once the very old and vulnerable are protected, the rest of us can get on with life, fearlessly and confidently, as long as we take care of our health. There are a few very safe treatments for covid19, but they have been suppressed because it had to be a "vaccine".

Vaccine hesitancy is a major issue in some countries

Just hearing about Turkey on R4
and a link
www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-04/16/c_139883309.htm

I feel like this thread is polar opposite to what we normally would want to achieve - ie getting out of this faster

I've not declined but I've emailed my GP's surgery to ask which vaccine I'm due to get, because I'm not liking everything I've heard about the AstraZeneca, and having had very severe pre eclampsia, which has been linked to blood clots later in life, I'm nervous about having the AZ. I'm due to get mine this week and I've not yet heard back so I'm not sure what to do, might give them a call tomorrow.

@Malahaha

There is no clear evidence at all that the experimental vaccines reduce tranmsission. Quite the opposite. Some medics have warned that the recently vaccinated are "shedding", and are more prone to passing it on.There are several reports (if you read Telegram and other uncensored reports) that the jabbed are spreaders.

It is not accurate to term the vaccines experimental. There is also no robust evidence to suggest that being vaccinated means you are more likely to transmit coronavirus. If you have some, please link it.

Meanwhile there is no evidence that healthy people (ie asymptomatic) are infectious. That's one of the rumours that spread to label us "dirty".
No-one (credible) has termed asymptomatic carriers as "dirty". It has been proven, however, that you can transmit coronavirus whilst not experiencing symptoms yourself. The degree to which this happens is a matter of debate, but it is has been established that it occurs. There's a huge amount of published literature trying to estimate this, here's one of the earlier studies: thorax.bmj.com/content/75/8/693.full

I think most people up to now do understand how vaccines work. They introduce a minute fragment of the thing and the body builds antibodies. These so-called vaccines do not work this way, and that's why many doctors don't use the word vaccine on them. They do not fit the definition of the word.
The astrazeneca vaccine works in the exact manner you've described. The mRNA vaccines are a step ahead - instead of giving you a portion of the virus (i.e., the spike protein), they give the instructions to the cell on how to make the spike protein itself.

There are a few very safe treatments for covid19, but they have been suppressed because it had to be a "vaccine".
Again, this is incorrect. There's been huge efforts made to try identify the gold standard of treating COVID patients. For example, the RECOVERY trial, which has recruited almost 40,000 patients and has demonstrated that dexamethasone improves outcomes whereas agents like convalescent plasma and hydroxychloroquine don't.

The astrazeneca vaccine works in the exact manner you've described.

This is not true.

Traditional vaccines use weakened or killed fragments of the target virus with an adjuvant to provoke an immune response, ie. polio, MMR, Hep B, HPV etc

Viral vector vaccines (AZ, Johnson and Johnson) use a completely different virus to smuggle in genetic material into cells and get them to produce the spike protein of the target virus.

It is a different mechanism.

To date, the only viral vector vaccines approved for human use have been the covid vaccines and two Ebola vaccines (in 2019 and 2020)

@MaxHanno you're a truly terrible human being.

Couldn't have put it better MaxNormal. I seriously wonder wtf is wrong with some people on here.

Here's a doctor and a sister of a man who haemorrhaged to death after an AZ jab and she still urges everybody who can to have the jab.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/08/sister-of-man-who-died-after-astrazeneca-jab-urges-public-to-have-vaccine

“Emotionally, we are completely and utterly furious. We are suffering. But there’s nothing in our minds to be really furious about. My brother was just extraordinarily unlucky.

“If we all have the vaccine a few of us might have a blood clot, but the evidence is that fewer people will die. We trust the process, we trust the regulator, and despite what has happened to our family, we don’t want people to be scared off. That’s the message we want to get across.”

@MaxHanno

You can get off your fucking vaccine high horse after you’ve just spoken to a grieving poster with very valid concerns like that. Take a long, hard look at yourself. You can pat your back for doing ‘your bit’ and taking the vaccine all you like but you’re clearly still a twat lacking in basic empathy.

I’ll repeat this again, Dr Geert Vanden Bosch has a PHD in virology and has previously developed vaccines but he isn’t happy at all about these particular vaccines and believes they will make the immune response too specific and help newer more infectious variants become more dominant. I suggest people have a read up of his papers.

But of course, it’s only Q-anon idiots who never passed GCSE biology that don’t want the vaccine

My concern is that other countries have seen effects in younger women. We haven't vaccinated young women yet (other than shielding/ vulnerable people) so we don't have the full story on the effects. I am completely on the fence about whether to have it or not. I agree that it's selfish not to, but am concerned being a women in her early 30s, taking the pill (already increased risk of blood clots).

It is not accurate to term the vaccines experimental.

They are experimental in that the trials have not ended and will not end until 2023. This is well known. They are not FDA approved; they have been licensed for emergency treatment.

This is why the lockdowns have been so unrelenting, and why safe and effective treatments such as vitamin d, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine have been deliberately denied to patients. Thousands of patients have lost their lives because of this denial of effective treatment.

If there is no emergency (ie no lockdown, and effective treatment) the vaccines cannot be administered.

RIP and sympathy going out to Vanguard Six - very sorry to hear of your loss and the awful dilemma you were confronted with. This highlights the need for all that can should get the vaccine to protect those who for medical reasons it would be risky so they don't have to make that choice of risking covid or risking potentially very rare reactions from the vaccine. Every vaccinated person adds to the firewall to snuff this thing out and protect the vulnerable and the NHS that is needed for all our ailments and interventions.

@ferryblue

I believe the issue identified by Vanden Bosch is the same issue described in this article about how “leaky vaccines” made the deadly chicken virus Marek’s disease much worse over time.

I truly despair that MN has become the place of choice for bad science and scaremongering to be proselytised. One poster has just shilled Dr Geert Vanden Bossche.

www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche

sciencebasedmedicine.org/countering-geert-vanden-bossches-dubious-viral-open-letter-warning-against-mass-covid-19-vaccination/

@sunshine7981

Interested to know if any of the people declining the vaccine have any scientific/medical training or education. I am a PhD biochemist and I jumped at the chance of a vaccine. All medications have side effects but these vaccines have been rigorously tested and the risks from Covid are much much greater.

Can you tell me anything about the vaccines and breastfeeding. I'm not anti vax at all and in fact my baby had her imms today but I'm worried sick about the COVID jab whilst I breastfeed.

[quote vera99]I truly despair that MN has become the place of choice for bad science and scaremongering to be proselytised. One poster has just shilled Dr Geert Vanden Bossche.

www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche

sciencebasedmedicine.org/countering-geert-vanden-bossches-dubious-viral-open-letter-warning-against-mass-covid-19-vaccination/[/quote]
Of course, like every other scientist speaking out now about their vaccine concerns, the backlash branding him a scaremongerer, conspiracy theorist etc, and trying to invalidate him, is what you'll first find if you google the name. In fact Bossche is one of the world's foremost vaccine developers. Like Michael Yeadon, ex-VP of Pfizer, he is speaking out his concerns.

I am not a scientist so I cannot judge what these experts are claiming. But the fact that so many ARE speaking out -- surely they deserve an ear? Just because you don't like what they are saying, is that a reason to disparage them? Shouldn't we at least listen, and then judge, instead of immediately jumping to articles trying to discredit them? Should they be silenced from the getgo? I am asking in all sincerity. Do you really only want to listen to cheerleaders? Where is the impartiality?

I've watched Bossche's videos. And Yeadon's. They are very interesting. I can't judge their content, not being a scientist, but I can at least listen to his conclusions without prejudice. Time, of course, will tell.

Of course, like every other scientist speaking out now about their vaccine concerns, the backlash branding him a scaremongerer, conspiracy theorist etc, and trying to invalidate him, is what you'll first find if you google the name. In fact Bossche is one of the world's foremost vaccine developers. Like Michael Yeadon, ex-VP of Pfizer, he is speaking out his concerns.

I am not a scientist so I cannot judge what these experts are claiming. But the fact that so many ARE speaking out -- surely they deserve an ear? Just because you don't like what they are saying, is that a reason to disparage them? Shouldn't we at least listen, and then judge, instead of immediately jumping to articles trying to discredit them? Should they be silenced from the getgo? I am asking in all sincerity. Do you really only want to listen to cheerleaders? Where is the impartiality?

I am a scientist - an epidemiologist at a UK university. I've listened to the claims of Yeadon and Vanden Bossche with impartiality.

The simple reason that they're shouted down and msm aren't giving them interviews is because there arguments aren't based on good science. They've been debunked many times over by experts globally.

Well if you label someone a conspiracy theorist it immediate negates or debunks any genuine concerns that person may have, and it appears this is extended to scientists too.

^there=their

I think it was Twitter who revealed the other day that the vast majority of anti vaxx info on there came from Russian accounts. I'm wondering how many Vlads we have here on Mumsnet.

Yeadon has more gravitas but colleagues who knew him can't recognise the man he has now become. Who knows the reasons for his 'enlightenment' but to be honest it shouldn't really matter. These are lone mavericks sitting on the sidelines in the pandemic finessing their 'views' and finding a ready market in the conspiracy sphere where the likes of David Icke, Piers Corbyn and the like make hay. In normal times offbeat eccentrics are just that harmless but these are not normal times. We should listen to peer reviewed scientists who examine carefully the evidence and proceed accordingly not march to the loony toons of the few if we are to find a way out of this morass. Googling Bosche, I quickly came upon the notorious Dr Vernon Coleman who finds succour in his doom-laden theory and that's enough for me to stop... vernoncoleman.org/videos/covid-19-vaccines-are-weapons-mass-destruction-and-could-wipe-out-human-race