Anybody been invited and declined the jab?

[Devlesko]

Beginning to think I did the right thing now.
Anybody else?

[quote Terracotta9]**@Vargas* But I do feel fairly judgemental about people refusing the jab, getting ill, and taking up NHS resources for something completely preventable.*

What evidence do you have that there are significant numbers of people taking up NHS resources from Covid due to refusing the vaccine?[/quote]
I have no evidence at all, but it seems fairly inevitable that some of those refusing the Covid vaccine will get ill with Covid, some seriously.

I do know two elderly people who never got flu jabs who died of flu, one was in ICU for many weeks. Maybe they would have had a few more years if they had not turned down the flu jabs they were offered.

No. Had mine as did my dh. No side effects. My 16 year old still has no sense of smell since getting Covid at Christmas. Not risking it.
Nice to have the luxury of not bothering though, knowing that the rest of us will establish enough herd immunity to keep you safe.

@Roonerspismed

‘Highly unlikely’?!

Can I maybe wait another year please so I can greater certainty than that?

Lawyer speak for, if this statement turns out to be untrue, you can try and sue us but we are fully indemnified and we did tell you!

@Terracotta9

Something doesn’t need to be capable of altering DNA to be classed as gene therapy.

According to the FDA:

Human gene therapy seeks to modify or manipulate the expression of a gene or to alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use

That’s exactly what the mRNA vaccines are doing - they “alter the biological properties of living cells for therapeutic use”, by getting them to make the spike proteins.

Yes, that is a definition of gene therapy, and this is why the mRNA vaccines are being classified as gene therapy currently.

The problem is, the older definition of gene therapy, which everyone on the internet is repeating and getting concerned about is "a therapeutic agent which alters genomic DNA". This is something that can be used to try and treat genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis of SCID, but has the potentially of a wide range of side effects because you're altering a person's DNA in a way that doesn't allow you to control where the piece of DNA inserts itself.

This situation has led to a flood of misinformation, with people stating that the vaccine is gene therapy and capable of changing your DNA with all the scary consequences that entails.

In reality, all an mRNA vaccine allows your cells to do is make the protein that it's coding for. The piece of mRNA slips into your cell (not going near your nucleus or DNA) and it's instructions are used to code for the protein it has the information for - in this case the spike protein of coronavirus.

that has the potentially for a wide range of side effects, and cur

@KurtWilde I’m struggling to find a post where I suggested the NHS was a free service?

@Checkingout811 The point is you suggested people who decline the vaccine should perhaps he withheld treatment by the NHS. Which causes me to wonder if you know how the nhs actually works.

I know many people irl who have declined the vaccine altogether or were so ill after the first jab they've declined the second dose - of these people 4 are in health care.

I've declined mine because I've had covid recently, I'm not in an at risk group, and from what I've read it seems that there's roughly the same immunity from having had it as there is from the jab.

I don’t think unvaccinated people should be denied treatment but I am looking forward to when we no longer have to consider those who end up in hospital due to doing so or hear about it really.

There’ll be a small amount of people who took the risk and it didn’t work out but as long as the fear narrative is dropped and we move on then ok.

@KurtWilde I do yes. I find it odd that you claim health care workers have declined their second Pfizer vaccine. That’s the vaccine we’ve all had and there haven’t been any issues with that one in the news like there has with the AZ.

@Checkingout811 I never said which vaccine they'd declined though. As it happens it was the AZ.

health care workers have been given the Pfizer at work. The roll out started in December.

AZ is for non HCP members of the public and has given distributed according to age working from the eldest to youngest.

The HCP at my health centre have had the AZ vaccine.

The practice nurse I spoke to was off work for over a week with side effects.

Yes, that is a definition of gene therapy, and this is why the mRNA vaccines are being classified as gene therapy currently.

Yes, and that’s the point. They ARE gene therapy.

Do you not realise how damaging this is?

When someone (correctly) states that the vaccines are gene therapy, and you come along and say no they aren’t, but a quick Google search shows otherwise according to the regulatory bodies and the companies making the vaccines.

Do you not see how this kind of gaslighting only fosters more mistrust around this topic and adds fuel to the anti-vaxx fire?

I just cancelled my appointment and feel a huge sense of relief. I'm a slim, physically fit 46 year old woman who has minimal contact with people so do not feel at risk from catching Covid much less becoming desperately ill from it.

If the Moderna vaccine becomes more available in the coming months than I will reconsider but as it stands at the moment, I will continue to refuse the AZ.

Ah good luck Blondiney thought you might get there. Did this thread help convince you?

@MarshaBradyo

Ah good luck Blondiney thought you might get there. Did this thread help convince you?

Nope, can't blame this thread!

Well that’s something.

It can be very skewed against AZ

@Terracotta9

Yes, that is a definition of gene therapy, and this is why the mRNA vaccines are being classified as gene therapy currently.

Yes, and that’s the point. They ARE gene therapy.

Do you not realise how damaging this is?

When someone (correctly) states that the vaccines are gene therapy, and you come along and say no they aren’t, but a quick Google search shows otherwise according to the regulatory bodies and the companies making the vaccines.

Do you not see how this kind of gaslighting only fosters more mistrust around this topic and adds fuel to the anti-vaxx fire?

Do you not understand how casually stating something is "experimental gene therapy", without including the relevant caveats is damaging, and in your own words, " fosters more mistrust around this topic and adds fuel to the anti-vaxx fire?"

mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy is any sense of the scientific understanding of what gene therapy is. The moderna vaccine is currently classified as a gene therapy agent due to the FDA definition, but as scientists and clinicians have been very quick to state, this is not the scientific or medical definition of traditional gene therapy. This is a case of legislation needing to catch up with the science- as far as I'm aware the Pfizer vaccine is not classified as gene therapy but I'm happy to be corrected if you can provide proof.

The vaccines are not able to alter your DNA. They do not come with the scary side effects that accompany traditional gene therapy (i.e, altering DNA in attempt to treat a genetic disorder).

There are numerous articles and videos by validated scientists explaining why mRNA shouldn't be considered gene therapy.

Is it not semantics whether it’s gene therapy or not?

It’s new and therefore we don’t have long term data. This matters to some more than others.

I went to my appointment fully prepared to decline if I was offered AZ. Yes the blood clot issue is rare but we don’t know enough about it yet IMO. I think ethically everyone should be given an option re which vaccine they receive (if any) now we know these serious side-effects are possible. I was offered another vaccine and accepted.

Yes.
It is just not right to me but I might change my mind. I am certainly not anti vaxx in general. Nothing that has come out since though has affected my choice - the risks are no different from with many vaccinations.

I've had a few invites. I have declined.
My brother haemorrhaged to death after the Moderna jab. They could not save him.

@Roonerspismed

Is it not semantics whether it’s gene therapy or not?

It’s new and therefore we don’t have long term data. This matters to some more than others.

It's not semantics because gene therapy has very real risks that would be unacceptable in terms of developing a vaccine to be used in the general population. Altering someone's DNA can be very effective in terms of trying to treat nasty genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis or muscular dystrophy, but due to the method (inserting a piece of genetic material at a random point into someone's DNA), it can lead to significant side effects. This is not what an mRNA vaccine does. mRNA cannot enter your nucleus or change your DNA.

Associating covid vaccines with these technologies is damaging, and leads to people turning it down for fear that they're going to experience the side effects reported in studies of gene therapies.

Turning down the vaccine because there isn't long term data (but you fully understand there aren't any risks associated with it changing your DNA) is an entirely different scenario