Justin Trudeau, Canadian PM, lying about the UK's "third wave"

[Umbivalent]

God, politicians are all as bad as each other, aren't they? Trudeau's coming under a lot of pressure because of Canada's slow vaccine rollout. So what does he do? Stand up in Parliament and lie about the apparently "very serious third wave" that we are apparently suffering

And I thought he was supposed to be one of the good ones!

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/trudeau-covid-third-wave-vaccine-b1832003.html

@hodgebit

Lying, mistaken, misspoke...who knows.

If we had a thread for every time a politician in country X (and country X can include the UK) lied, was mistaken or misspoke about events in another country or continent Mumsnet would be overwhelmed..lets face it it is not the first time it's happened.

@MaxNormal

jasjas1973 okay we should all just be wailing behind our sofas in eternal despair.

I do not believe DFS make a vaccine, happy to be proven wrong.

Then let’s hope there’s enough of the good vaccines going round. I really want to travel and I need all countries to open up or, selfishly, the ones I want to travel to.

As for lying politicians, is anyone reading the papers? We are so blunted by the day to day lies of our own Tory government that it doesn’t even make a thread on MN.

If we’re going by anecdotes, my friend in Ottawa has had her first AZ vaccine. But shops, sports etc are getting shut, stay at home order for 28 days, the toughest in Ontario since the pandemic began. Their under 40s numbers are high, ICU busy etc.

It's bizarre though, whether he misunderstood or was purposefully dishonest, surely he wants people to get vaccinated when the supply is better? Surely many people will listen to that and say what's the point in vaccinations then, dangerous.

If he lied about the third wave it’s because we’re not facing it but already put it behind us. I took that to have been in January.

@Mrstwiddle compared to Canada the UK has done a brilliant job
Vaccine procurement and rollout has been brilliant, pretty much everything else Feb2020 - Jan2021 was handled abysmally in the UK.

@DdraigGoch We can shop for tat, we can drink, we can go to a cottage in the Lake District and our kids can go to school. All a long way from needing a permit to leave the house

You are challenging his assertion that we are under tough restrictions? I haven’t seen my Mum since September and still am not allowed to let her in my house let alone visit and stay over. I’d say that’s a pretty massive restriction! Do you want to let the publicans/restaurant owners with premises where you have to eat indoors know that everything is hunky dory and there are not heavy restrictions in the UK? Some schools have only been open for 2weeks pre Easter (while nothing else was opened). We had to educate them from home Jan-March. I can’t take my children into a museum during the Easter hols. We are still told to work from home where possible. Non essential shops have been open for 4days after being closed for 3months. We still have an international travel ban. It’s a relief that we are in the position that they have started to begin to ease restrictions here but it’s a true statement that we are still under tough restrictions - life is still far from normal.

and are facing a very serious third wave,Cases and deaths are the lowest in Europe (bar possibly Iceland). There is no sign yet of an uptick. Any "third wave" in the UK would be more of a ripple, certainly not anything which could be described as "very serious" in the context of everything Europe has been through

All scientists/ politicians are saying there will be another wave, we just don’t know how large yet. The most vulnerable are better protected against original strains. I hope for all our sakes you are right and that as we come out of lockdown and as cases inevitably rise that hospitalisations and deaths don’t surge again.

I can’t vouch for the validity of this website and I think I heard in the news that Italy now had the largest death toll from Covid in Europe www.statista.com/statistics/1115043/coronavirus-deaths-timeline-in-the-eu-5/.

But in summary the UK has either the worst or second worst number of deaths from Covid in Europe- hardly in a position to crow and unfortunately Covid still presents a serious risk everywhere globally mid pandemic.

Surely almost every country is facing a "wave" otherwise why do they have restrictions in place?

@Tirathisyou did you watch the video and listen to the gist of what he said?

He says vaccinations on their own are not enough to keep us safe we need to engage with with the right kind of behaviours, do things that the Conservatives aren’t always good with like wearing masks, keeping distance and obeying the public health rules

Do you still think what he said is dangerous? Because it’s pretty much the same message we are receiving from Whitty, Johnson etc that the vaccinations are part of the solution but not a golden ticket out of Covid.

[quote VaVaGloom]@Tirathisyou did you watch the video and listen to the gist of what he said?

He says vaccinations on their own are not enough to keep us safe we need to engage with with the right kind of behaviours, do things that the Conservatives aren’t always good with like wearing masks, keeping distance and obeying the public health rules

Do you still think what he said is dangerous? Because it’s pretty much the same message we are receiving from Whitty, Johnson etc that the vaccinations are part of the solution but not a golden ticket out of Covid.[/quote]
Yes I do. Plenty of people are already on the fence around having the jab, which is fine if making an informed decision based on science and data, but many base it on what they hear and read in the media etc. Hearing him say what it basically that jabs won't change much which is what he is insinuating, of course that's going to sway some people.

He’s not insinuating jabs won’t change much, he’s just saying vaccinations alone aren’t the way to try and control/prevent Covid which pretty much everyone else says too 🙅‍♀️

Sorry for weird emoji!

@VaVaGloom I'm not denying that there are still restrictions in place. I am however saying that our restrictions are moderate, not severe. Evaluating it using the Stringency Index, our measures have fallen by more than 20 points from 88 to 66 since the peak. This is less stringent than most of Europe (principle exceptions being Portugal and Sweden who are very close to us, only Finland and Iceland are noticeably lower) and less stringent too than Canada. So if you agree with him that our restrictions are "very strong", where would you grade restrictions we had in Jan/Feb, or indeed the restrictions many other countries have now? There are only so many superlatives.

@VaVaGloom

He’s not insinuating jabs won’t change much, he’s just saying vaccinations alone aren’t the way to try and control/prevent Covid which pretty much everyone else says too 🙅‍♀️

It's also that, at this stage, the majority are not fully vaccinated. A large proportion (most, I think) of the vulnerable have only had first dose, or are yet to have any. I include all the vulnerable to serious illness and death - so 40+, and those at highest risk of long covid - 30+ (although worth bearing in mind that people as young as 20 are in ICU in Canada).

We've only just started giving first jabs to the 45+ group.

When the majority of the population is fully vaccinated (2 jabs for most, 3 for the more vulnerable), then vaccines will make a big difference.

@NRCS

Where have 1800 babies died of covid?

@NRCS Brazil

It's absolutely awful. Likely to do with the extreme poverty and deprivation so many are forced to live in there, and the poor state of their healthcare system. So terribly sad.

@DdraigGoch personally I think not being able to have anybody inside your own home is a pretty strong measure. Only 30 mourners at Prince Philip’s funeral tomorrow is a strong restriction. University students not being allowed to study in Universities is a strong measure. Weddings are allowed but restricted to 15 guests with masks I think? Not being able to go to the theatre, cinema, bowling, gallery or museums is a strong restriction and hugely damaging to the arts and charitable sectors. A ban on international travel isn’t exactly light touch policy? Presumably we moved points down in the stringency index due to shops and outside hospitality re-opening, but as that has only happened 5 days ago we have yet to see the impact. If we compare what we can do in the UK with what people can do day to day in Australia or New Zealand then yes I would say the UK is still subject to strong restrictions.

I can’t stand him or his draft dodging father.

????

@Andylion

I can’t stand him or his draft dodging father.

????

What did I stutter? His father dodged the WWII draft.

[quote mamakoukla]@TwinnyMummy321 it may depend on where she is in the province and which province. I’d be happy to be vaccinated by June... Moderna delayed another shipment again.... so many delays, it gets difficult to plan. A number of vaccination clinics in Toronto are shuttered as they have no more supplies to deliver, others are open. It depends also on which Public Health Unit as different ones approach this differently. Our local one holds back 2-3 days worth of doses as a buffer in event of delays in deliveries. This is to try to keep a smooth delivery, no appointment rebooking. Fills my heart with joy when I hear another person is vaccinated[/quote]
Vaccine rollout in Canada is inconsistent. I was fortunate to get my first dose of Pfizer today, because I am 55 and live in a "high risk" neighbourhood. Booking the appointment was worse than getting concert tickets.

The hospital where I got my vaccine announced today that they had run out, but will vaccinate those with appointments up until April 18.

@VaVaGloom

I can’t vouch for the validity of this website and I think I heard in the news that Italy now had the largest death toll from Covid in Europe www.statista.com/statistics/1115043/coronavirus-deaths-timeline-in-the-eu-5/.

But in summary the UK has either the worst or second worst number of deaths from Covid in Europe- hardly in a position to crow and unfortunately Covid still presents a serious risk everywhere globally mid pandemic.

It's a long way from worst. Czechia and Hungary have the highest deaths per capita in the world, followed by several smaller east European states, and Belgium. The UK is moving down the table now, thanks no doubt to our lockdown and vaccination programme.

@Andylion glad to hear you’re vaccinated. I live in Ontario and am following the announcement for the next set of restrictions.

he simply assumed to include the U.K

If you don't know, you shouldn't make a statement on such a sensitive issue

after being briefed that there was a third wave rampaging across Europe, which is true, and he simply assumed to include the U.K

Then just say Europe, why single out the UK?

@VaVaGloom You need to look at Covid deaths according to population size rather than overall deaths. We are not the highest in Europe. Also, due to differences in reporting of deaths, the number of excess deaths is likely to give a more accurate measure. I have attached a link below to the latest Economist excess deaths tracker. You will notice that some countries are very behind with their reporting of excess deaths (e.g. Italy) so we will not be able to get a clear picture until some time after the pandemic is over. Finally, I don’t see anyone crowing on this thread. Just annoyed that Trudeau was using typical politician spin.

www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker