Page 3 | Justin Trudeau, Canadian PM, lying about the UK's "third wave"

Umbivalent · 2021-04-15T15:33:27+00:00

God, politicians are all as bad as each other, aren't they? Trudeau's coming under a lot of pressure because of Canada's slow vaccine rollout. So what does he do? Stand up in Parliament and lie about the apparently "very serious third wave" that we are apparently suffering [hmm] And I thought he was supposed to be one of the good ones! [[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/trudeau-covid-third-wave-vaccine-b1832003.html]]

Tealightsandd · 15/04/2021 18:59

The ageism of HolmeH's post aside, what is 10% of 60 million? That's around the number of under 80s in this country, and it's a lot of people. Definitely more than enough to completely overwhelm the NHS.

Sickening sentiments in any case.
Death is a fact of life. We have to accept it
When it's other people and other people's loved ones, eh? Covid is not a pleasant way to die. You think over 80s don't matter, at least give them a compassionate way out.

Vaccines stop spread after one dose by around 50%
Even if your claim is true, that leaves a 50% chance of spread.

It's not just about death. Never has been.
Long haul covid is a real problem. 1 million already diagnosed with it. Likely lots more yet to be diagnosed.

bookworm1632 · 15/04/2021 19:04

@Umbivalent

Justin Trudeau stated that the UK is currently suffering a very serious third wave, despite our vaccination programme. Are we?

Well yes we are.

Current predictions forecast between 20k and 100k deaths within the next 12 months due to the 3rd wave.

There's a chance a 3rd wave won't happen - if we can suppress case numbers to near zero before one of the vaccine-escaping variants gains ground, then we can win. Otherwise, vaccines won't help - the AZ vaccine is almost useless at stopping the SA variant from spreading for example.

Of course the % of infected people dying will be MUCH lower in a 3rd wave - the vaccines will continue to protect the vast majority against serious illness/death including the SA strain - but if we for example choose that we've had enough of restrictions and we're going to take it on the chin, the size of the 3rd wave will dwarf the first two on the basis of infections - but not deaths.

Life will be a LOT easier though if we can avoid the 3rd wave - it's not set in stone, but most scientists believe it's likely. I think that's the ONLY point Trudeau was trying to make - vaccines aren't the be all and end all.

bookworm1632 · 15/04/2021 19:05

Sorry - replied to wrong post - the yes we are is to the caim that the UK is facing a serious 3rd wave. It isn't here yet.

bakewelltarty · 15/04/2021 19:08

HolmeH - you may 'hate' to compare to flu but you did. This is not flu. Flu would not have hospitalised me and put my healthy 50 year old sister in ICU for 5 weeks.

Your ageism aside, this is not about deaths. It's about services and the NHS being completely overwhelmed. It's about people, who will ultimately survive, being so sick they are hospitalised. It's about so many people being off work at the same time that food doesn't get delivered and essential workers can't work. It's about costing the economy far more than lockdowns do. I do wish we could 'just learn to live with this' but the truth is we can't. Until it dies out naturally or is effectively controlled we cannot lead a 'normal' life.

Onesailwait · 15/04/2021 19:09

He's just trying to deflect because the heat is on him. Everyday this week news reports (Canadian news)start with how our numbers are soaring & our vaccine roll out is woeful. Trudeau is a waste of oxygen and I don't think he has done anything of substance during his time in office .

MaxNormal · 15/04/2021 19:15

It's just absolute basic common sense

Oh. I was hoping for an equation

MaxNormal · 15/04/2021 19:22

bookworm1632 I don't know if there's any avoiding any third waves if they are indeed going to happen - we'd just be defering yet again, at enormous financial and societal cost.

If we do have a huge third wave in terms of number of infections, but manage through vaccination to have deaths and hospitalisations at a manageable level, then that's not a bad outcome, and beyond that we'd likely be looking at a post-pandemic scenario, where we have another endemic virus to leave with/vaccinate the vulnerable against longer term.

DazedandConcerned · 15/04/2021 19:24

I got racially abused in Aldi today because everyone in my area knows I’m Canadian.

All thanks to this clown. I can’t stand him or his draft dodging father. Best part of no longer living in Canada is not needing to see this sanctimonious jackass on tv all the time.

He’s wrong and is attempting to deflect from the poor planning and rollout of the vaccine program. My aunt - 60s with a health condition - will be lucky to be vaccinated by September she’s told my mum. Heats on Trudeau and he starts pointing fingers elsewhere. Typical.

My biggest issue is - if vaccines don’t work, then what next? Lockdown forever? It doesn’t work and it isn’t sustainable.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 15/04/2021 19:56

@ElphabaTheGreen

Sorry OP - he is just paraphrasing Boris by saying ‘facing’. I think you’ve read it incorrectly.

That said, I thought we’d had our third wave. I’m NHS staff and we referred to that shit show over December to March as the third wave. We had that spike around September which we referred to as the second wave.

I’m a bit confused about the waves. The peak in November and the one in December are I think 1 wave. The second peak was caused by opening up too early and cases starting to rise from a high base rate, leading to us having to lock down again.

Where it gets a bit confusing is the U.K. variant. The wave that Europe are now having is caused by the U.K. variant and we had that causing problems in November/December at the point we were coming out of lockdown. So I don’t know if it’s 1 wave with 2 peaks or 2 distinct waves.

Bordois · 15/04/2021 20:12

Does this wave logic apply to all the other countries who have restrictions in place?

bookworm1632 · 15/04/2021 20:17

@MaxNormal

bookworm1632 I don't know if there's any avoiding any third waves if they are indeed going to happen - we'd just be defering yet again, at enormous financial and societal cost.

If we do have a huge third wave in terms of number of infections, but manage through vaccination to have deaths and hospitalisations at a manageable level, then that's not a bad outcome, and beyond that we'd likely be looking at a post-pandemic scenario, where we have another endemic virus to leave with/vaccinate the vulnerable against longer term.

I don't know if there's any avoiding any third waves if they are indeed going to happen - we'd just be defering yet again, at enormous financial and societal cost.

I agree that we certainly don't want a repeat of this last year - we should certainly not have another lockdown - there's no reason to providing the government is sensible in the next 6 months.

If we do have a huge third wave in terms of number of infections, but manage through vaccination to have deaths and hospitalisations at a manageable level, then that's not a bad outcome,

Absolutely agreed

beyond that we'd likely be looking at a post-pandemic scenario

Debatable - covid is a new disease, not just a pandemic. The initial epidemic is already completely over in the UK, we're just mopping up, BUT, we are facing a new epidemic with new strains - possibly. The ideal is that we stop it before it starts - if we don't then my best guess is that we're going to face significant disruption to life for several years.

bookworm1632 · 15/04/2021 20:22

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay

There isn't really a technical definition of waves - it's a general descriptive term to describe the graphs showing the rise and fall of infections.
Personally I don't think it is useful to keep count - it shoud just be "current wave", "a new wave" etc.

MaxNormal · 15/04/2021 20:30

BUT, we are facing a new epidemic with new strains - possibly

What I find quite reassuring is that all the mutations have been quite similar so far. If that continues I do think we'll be okay.

VaVaGloom · 15/04/2021 20:35

@Umbivalent

Justin Trudeau stated that the UK is currently suffering a very serious third wave, despite our vaccination programme. Are we?

*@Umbivalent* You are misquoting and misleading people. I have just watched the video you shared what he says is: 'The UK are ahead of just about everybody else on vaccinations and yet they maintain very strong restrictions and are facing a very serious third wave. Vaccinations on their own are not enough to keep us safe."

Johnson, Whitty, Vallance have all said the UK will face a third wave at as restrictions are lifted. Yes @Umbivalent you have wrongly accused him of lying. He was just using the UK as an example to show that even with a fast vaccine rollout its not an immediate 'end' to Covid controls / cases and other public health measures are still required.

VaVaGloom · 15/04/2021 20:41

@Umbivalent did you miss this in the news from the SAGE scientists that Covid modelling indicates as lockdown measures are lifted the UK face a third wave? Or do you think they are all lying too?

inews.co.uk/news/politics/sage-warns-third-wave-autumn-unless-baseline-measures-943606

www.lbc.co.uk/news/sage-third-wave-lockdown-easing-lshtm-covid-15-may-21-june/

SeagullSong · 15/04/2021 21:12

British Canadian here. Trudeau doesn't know his arse from his elbow, but I feel more embarrassed when Boris opens his mouth than him.

BunsyGirl · 15/04/2021 21:21

@VaVaGloom If you read the whole thread you would already see that @Umbivalent has already acknowledged that she mistakenly said suffering rather than facing. She was not deliberately trying to mislead people.

Mybestestfriend · 15/04/2021 21:22

Boris did say quite recently that the European wave will get here. Perhaps he believed Boris.

Chatterbox1987 · 15/04/2021 21:30

I've said time and time again that the word wave is very subjective..... a tsunami is a wave.... as is a tiny ripple on the beach front...both waves but both have very different potential damage limits. Same with covid.... our cases could go up 10% in the summer and we could have minimal deaths and hospitalizations because of the vaccine and that would technically be classed as a wave but would be completely insignificant compared to this winter wave.

VaVaGloom · 15/04/2021 21:43

[quote BunsyGirl]@VaVaGloom* If you read the whole thread you would already see that *@Umbivalent has already acknowledged that she mistakenly said suffering rather than facing. She was not deliberately trying to mislead people.[/quote]
@BunsyGirl I've read the full thread including this from the OP where she had corrected her original misquotation of 'suffering' to the term he did use 'facing':

Yes. This. We are not, in fact, "facing a very serious third wave"

So, he was wrong. Stood up and said it, to dig himself out of a hole..

On this occasion, what Trudeau said was not wrong but @Umbivalent is wrong as the UK is facing a third wave

VaVaGloom · 15/04/2021 21:48

Maybe OP could amend the thread title to 'I thought Justin Trudeau, Canadian PM, was lying about the UK facing a "third wave" but it turns out he wasn't'

jasjas1973 · 15/04/2021 22:01

@MaxNormal

BUT, we are facing a new epidemic with new strains - possibly

What I find quite reassuring is that all the mutations have been quite similar so far. If that continues I do think we'll be okay.

Well i dont! The Brazillian P1 version is hospitalising the young (under 40s) and had already killed 1800 babies?

And that the SA version is more vaccine resistant?

The UK is mass testing in London, as restrictions lift (we already have several holiday makers staying in BnB's in our village in Cornwall) this variant will go uk wide over the next 2 or 3 months.

BunsyGirl · 15/04/2021 22:01

@VaVaGloom So you read the whole thread and then accused someone of misquoting when they had already acknowledged they had made a mistake. In fact, you specifically referred to the OP using the word “suffering” without mentioning that she had acknowledged that Trudeau had actually said “facing”. Are you a politician by any chance?! As is shown by this thread, the meaning of “facing” is open to interpretation. Shame that Trudeau didn’t choose his words more carefully...or maybe ambiguity was his intention...

PrincessNutNuts · 15/04/2021 22:27

@MaxNormal

It's just absolute basic common sense

Oh. I was hoping for an equation

I'm not sure an equation is needed to express that if the vaccines don't have 100% coverage or 100% effectiveness then they can't possibly be 100% of the solution.

VaVaGloom · 15/04/2021 22:28

@BunsyGirl The OP's title of the thread is incorrect he did not lie. The OP says he is wrong to say that the UK is facing a third wave. He is not wrong he is echoing what our own PM and chief medical and chief scientific officer and scientific advisory group for emergencies say.

If posts are started with false allegations then people will challenge them.