Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

I find it so depressing we are trying to get back to Australia got bumped off flights in January and that was business class
We are citizens and have a house there but with the small numbers allowed back in it's very hard and every time there is an outbreak the caps are reduced or an airport closed (Melbourne) putting more pressure on flights numbers
I can't see it changing any time soon and the the prospect of two weeks hotel quarantine after being fully vaccinated is also not appealing

I didn't realise that they said no to both AZ and P. Are tehy waiting for Moderna and the other one (forgotten the name) or are they going to develop their own then?

Wow - imagine if the UK government just left it's citizens oversees for such a long time. It seems some governments in some countries do what they like and ignore their own citizens needs - gobsmacked.

"As for those 36,000 stranded Australians, I can only imagine how angry and frustrated they must feel. I remember listening to a podcast on The Guardian website last year of a family with something like six kids who were stranded here in the UK. They'd come over for a family wedding in Feb 2020 and couldn't get home, because as eight economy ticket holders they were continually bumped off flights. They were staying with the dad's brother, who has nine kids of his own, and they weren't being paid their salaries any more, so they were completely reliant on their hosts to feed them and provide them with everything they needed - it was absolutely awful. God knows if they're still here or if they ever got home. It's just unimaginable to be stranded 12,000 miles from you home, jobs, kids' schools, your friends, your whole life - unable to get home because your government doesn't prioritise getting its own citizens home. "

@GiveMeTulipsfromAmsterdam

I didn't realise that they said no to both AZ and P. Are tehy waiting for Moderna and the other one (forgotten the name) or are they going to develop their own then?

They haven’t said no to AZ, they are like limiting its use to over 50s.

I’m guessing the P refers to Pfizer? They haven’t said they aren’t using it.

The article in the original post refers to the Johnson &johnson vaccine.

Wow - imagine if the UK government just left it's citizens oversees for such a long time. It seems some governments in some countries do what they like and ignore their own citizens needs - gobsmacked.

There would be an outcry if it happened here, which makes me very glad (despite all the fuck ups this past year) to be British. The British press would have an absolute field day if the UK govt stranded thousands of Brits overseas. It's amazing and depressing to me that most Australians don't seem to care about their fellow citizens who are stranded. They're just glad that they are 'safe' and fuck everyone else. I really feel for stranded Aussies and also for those who can't get either in or out of Australia to see their loved ones and have no prospect of doing so currently.

@parentalhelpline

https://twitter.com/9newsaus/status/1318632532716457986?s=21

A country that is content to allow babies to die to maintain border controls might be said to have its priorities out of whack.

I remember there was a case on the NSW-QLD border as well where a woman lost one of her twins in utero after being turned away from the border on her way to the closest hospital. Absolutely criminal.

@zafferana

Wow - imagine if the UK government just left it's citizens oversees for such a long time. It seems some governments in some countries do what they like and ignore their own citizens needs - gobsmacked.

There would be an outcry if it happened here, which makes me very glad (despite all the fuck ups this past year) to be British. The British press would have an absolute field day if the UK govt stranded thousands of Brits overseas. It's amazing and depressing to me that most Australians don't seem to care about their fellow citizens who are stranded. They're just glad that they are 'safe' and fuck everyone else. I really feel for stranded Aussies and also for those who can't get either in or out of Australia to see their loved ones and have no prospect of doing so currently.

I think many of us do care immensely but feel very helpless - the state of emergency powers basically mean the government could mandate whatever they wanted. Of course there is a vocal group that are very selfish and can't comprehend anything beyond their own safety, but I like to think that's not most of us.

I just posted this article from New Scientist on another thread.
It seems Australia is taking the right approach regarding AZ and J&J vaccines.

What causes the rare blood clots linked with some covid-19 vaccines?

HEALTH 13 April 2021
By Clare Wilson
New Scientist Default Image
A pharmacist administering the covid-19 vaccine in Pennsylvania
Ben Hasty/MediaNews Group/Reading Eagle via Getty Images
Use of the Johnson & Johnson covid-19 vaccine has been suspended in the US after six people experienced blood clots, out of 6.8 million who received the vaccine in the country. The cases seem to be similar to the rare blood clots seen in recipients of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, which has caused some countries to restrict its use.
The blood clot syndrome involves an unusual type of clot, often one that forms in the brain – called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis or CVST – coupled with low levels of platelets, small particles in the blood that stick together to make clots.
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It has been seen mainly in people under about 60, and more often in women than men. But the sex difference may be because more women have been vaccinated, as they comprise more healthcare workers and care home staff. In an analysis of 79 UK cases seen after the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab, they occurred at the same rate in men and women, says Munir Pirmohamed, chair of the UK’s Commission on Human Medicines. The overall rate was four cases per million people who have received the vaccine in the UK.
It is unknown why younger people seem more at risk, but the age distribution is partly why some countries have said this vaccine should only be given to those above a certain age. The other reason is that older people are more at risk from covid-19 itself, so the benefit of the vaccine should outweigh the risk.
The six cases of CVST newly reported in recipients of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, one of which was fatal, were all in women aged between 18 and 48.
Johnson & Johnson announced today it would delay the European roll-out of its product. “We have been working closely with medical experts and health authorities, and we strongly support the open communication of this information to healthcare professionals and the public,” the firm said in a statement.
What could be causing the clots? In the Oxford/AstraZeneca cases, many of those affected have tested positive for antibodies that bind to a molecule released by platelets, called platelet factor 4 or PF4. The vaccine may somehow trigger production of these antibodies, which cause multiple small clots to form in the blood and that can use up platelets, says Andreas Greinacher at the University of Greifswald in Germany. It resembles a syndrome in which similar antibodies can be triggered by the blood-thinning treatment heparin, says Greinacher, who is an expert on the heparin side effect.

Read more: www.newscientist.com/article/2274320-what-causes-the-rare-blood-clots-linked-with-some-covid-19-vaccines/#ixzz6s6JA1mtK

"Wow - imagine if the UK government just left it's citizens oversees for such a long time. It seems some governments in some countries do what they like and ignore their own citizens needs - gobsmacked."

I seem to remember that last March/April 2020 there was discussion about whether to 'close the borders' (obviously never entirely, since as a pp said, there would be food/med supply issues if the borders were literally closed), and there is still discussion about whether that should have happened, of course. One of the reasons given at the time for not doing so was the concern that UK nationals would have great difficulty returning (I think Dominic Raab's concern?).

In the end there did have to be a few repatriation flights, but I think most returned on commercial flights. I suppose if you bar all non-nationals from entering, the knock-on effect on commercial flights is significant, as some Aus pp have explained above.

Quarantine/testing is a different question of course.

Sorry for the ignorant question, but with the citizens stuck abroad, is the issue that the government have banned people from coming back at all? Or more that the cost of quarantine and lack of available flights makes it practically impossible for most?

Limited quarantine spots, limited flights, caps on incoming passengers, and costs.

@psychomath

Sorry for the ignorant question, but with the citizens stuck abroad, is the issue that the government have banned people from coming back at all? Or more that the cost of quarantine and lack of available flights makes it practically impossible for most?

Australians had 6 months to travel home after the quarantine was first introduced last year. Government covered the costs of the quarantine hotel.

Some of those now trying to return are long term (years) residents abroad. Some might understandably want to return to Australia to be in a covid safe country. Others might have had a visa run out after a job contract ended or need/want to visit ill family/funeral. A few are still travelling in and out on business.

In the end though, they're a small minority. The vast majority of Australians are in Australia. The ones abroad mostly went home within the first 6 months.

It's a case of the majority (Australians in Australia) being protected. It's a shame for the small minority abroad but it's really the only option. The alternative of prioritising the few over the many could lead to Australia becoming like the UK.

@zafferana

Wow - imagine if the UK government just left it's citizens oversees for such a long time. It seems some governments in some countries do what they like and ignore their own citizens needs - gobsmacked.

There would be an outcry if it happened here, which makes me very glad (despite all the fuck ups this past year) to be British. The British press would have an absolute field day if the UK govt stranded thousands of Brits overseas. It's amazing and depressing to me that most Australians don't seem to care about their fellow citizens who are stranded. They're just glad that they are 'safe' and fuck everyone else. I really feel for stranded Aussies and also for those who can't get either in or out of Australia to see their loved ones and have no prospect of doing so currently.

Yeah we're so good here in the UK

Wow imagine if the UK had allowed border policy to lead to 150,000 dead Brits, 1 million+ suffering with long covid, and many 1000s of businesses ruined. Oh and knowingly sending covid positive patients into care homes.

There'd be outcry....Oh no, wait. Sorry there wasn't.

Unfortunately covid means some people will suffer more than others. Generally the fairest, kindest, and most sensible thing to do is prioritise helping the many rather than the few. That's what Australia rightly choose to do.

Remember some of the Australians 'stranded' abroad have lived abroad for 10/20+ years. It's not someone on a temporary holiday.

36,000 Australians abroad vs the safety of millions of Australians at home. Which group do you prioritise? The many or the few.

36,000 stranded Australians (often very long term settled residents abroad) vs 150,000 dead Brits and 1 million Brits with long covid. Which country has the better policy?

I should imagine, having handled things so well so far, Australia doesn't want to fall at the last hurdle. If a jobs worth doing, it's worth doing properly attitude. Perhaps, with the rise of the South African strain, Australia wants to wait for a guaranteed effective vaccine. From what I understand Moderna has higher efficacy against this strain? They're in a good position, trouble stirring media aside, to wait a little longer. We're not and don't have the luxury to wait but they do.

How can you guarantee a vaccine? You might be half way through and another emerges.

How can you guarantee a vaccine? You might be half way through and another emerges.

Exactly.

There is no certainty, we need to stop looking for it.

Ok yes not guarantee exactly, but definitely it's nice to be in a position to wait and see just for a little while longer. They can see how it goes with other countries who've got further along with their vaccination programme. Perhaps compare country A who used vaccine 1 against country B who used vaccine 2.

Ok if we don't need to wait at all, why not immediately start on Novovax? Why the wait? Why not give out treatments currently being trialled instead of waiting. There's no guarantee afterall.

@Tealightsandd

Ok if we don't need to wait at all, why not immediately start on Novovax? Why the wait? Why not give out treatments currently being trialled instead of waiting. There's no guarantee afterall.

Process yes of course, that’s not a good comparison, but thinking that the virus will stop mutating because Aus has decided to open borders finally isn’t going to happen.

When Aus open their borders it’ll be the same course as the rest of us.

Time will tell who's making the better choices. So far it's been Australia.

It’s not a competition it’s about what is better next.

And this is one of the few threads where dual citizens (or others) get the differences between countries.

It’s a shame it always gets drawn back to why didn’t UK do the same as for once a conversation based on what is realistic would be good.

And also what will happen in Aus rather than always drawing it back to raking over UK figures.

I totally agree it’s not a competition. All countries got dealt different hands, how they played them is up for debate, but the full story won’t be understood for decades.

It seems to me that vaccinated populations are in a much better position than non vaccinated populations from here on in. We’re extremely lucky to have access to highly effective / safe options.

It is realistic. They're doing it, anti Morrison opportunists regardless.

I strongly suspect politics is motivating the complaints about Australia's fantastic handling of covid. The Guardian's been running a daily campaign for the last year. Everyday there's yet another negative story about Australia. Yes I know a lot of decisions are at state level but I'm talking about the motivations of the campaign.

It's not a competition of course not, but it's impossible not to compare in a global world. Afterall it's globalisation that's responsible for the pandemic.

It's sensible to watch and learn from other countries.

No realism re what the U.K. could have done v Aus.

The realists who know both countries well will get the differences.

I’m a bit over applauding or otherwise countries, it’s been a hellish journey for so many.