Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

If it really is 2024 then I doubt I’ll ever see my parents again :( they’ll be 87 and 85 by then and the journey is already a struggle for them :(

I used to love living here, now I just can’t help but feel moving here was the worst mistake of my life :(

@MaitlandGirl surely you travel to them at that age? Hopefully 2024 is a worst case scenario!

2024 could mean that both my grandmothers could die before my parents can visit again. They are in their 80s. For many families, the decision to emigrate was based on the assumption that they were only a 24 hour flight away from family. Sure it was expensive, but it's very different to no longer have the option.

Yet another disgrace by the Australian Federal Government. Every other developed country split their risk by ordering from multiple vaccine manufacturers. Morrison took a gamble as AZ could be manufactured locally and it failed miserably. We were already behind original forecast after he blamed EU but was then was caught lying about the EU blocking 3.1 mil doses of Pfizer.

AZ hasn’t failed. It’s a good vaccine being rolled out in U.K. and having huge impact on U.K.‘S cases and deaths. U.K. has lowest cases in Europe now and that’s thanks to AZ and Pzfizer vaccines ( roughly half each)
But I get the point re. Risk balance in a zero Covid environment.
But all vaccines have risks so that risk balance applies to all of them.

The gamble to invest heavily in AZ rather than pfizer( or going 50/50) has failed( rather than the vaccine itself).

It concerns me, my family are there. I feel really blocked off.

Also how do you deal with variants as they emerge? Do you keep waiting for a new vaccine to deal with it.

A bit like jumping onto a moving object

IMO Aus and NZ whilst living a normal life pretty much during this time sounds great, they have only kicked the can down the road.
It will come to them, it’s inevitable. The only hope is that vaccines or treatments will save them from large numbers dying.
If the vaccine roll out is as slow as feared then it will be a long time before they are able to open.
I do wonder if Europe UK and US will be living normally and they will still be having lockdowns / shut in their own country

@newstart1234
I'd say it would be a mixed bag. Most are very grateful to have escaped the worst of it, but there are so many of us who miss our loved ones.
I feel very grateful that we are in a position where our day to day lives are so normal but am hugely relieved that a true two way travel bubble is about to open with NZ.
We are booking flights for a longer trip back to our friends and family in a few weeks (touch wood). We would usually be back and forth a couple of times each year, and friends and family would also come to us.
It's also the issue with the internal borders though, we wouldn't risk a trip to Queensland or Vic because that would just be for entertainment. We are willing to risk it to see family (especially as we could stay with them indefinitely).
So it's frustrating but it's not like we can't see the bigger picture.

@Quit4me "The only hope is that vaccines or treatments will save them from large numbers dying."
Yup that was exactly the point. And until it went tits up with the vaccine strategy the narrative was changing to opening up and accepting that the covid will come in but we would be in a better position because we have learnt so much more than we knew in the early days, and those who wanted to would be vaccinated.
It's all moot now with az on hold though.
Considering a longer trip to NZ later in the year when their vaccines have reached our age group as we are still citizens and still registered with our gp.

It’s such a fuck up.

Most Aussies seem to be taking the approach of “I’m alright Jack” but poor FIL is losing his only sibling & can’t fly to see them before they die and to go to the funeral, his nephew can’t see his dying parent & the chances are that they will meet my DS before he turns 1 (or maybe even 2...he’s 3 months old) are looking slim.

This policy has ruined possibly as many people’s lives irrevocably as it has saved.

But I thought Australia (like NZ, wherever) was one of the Wonderful places we should all aspire to be like so marvelous was their covid control.

What is happening in NZ re vaccinations - how stranded abroad are their citizens? I heard that vaccine roll out in Japan is looking very slow, too.

By taking a zero covid approach, Australia has basically dug itself a very large hole which it is hard to see how it will get out of. The government also knows it can't alter policy now or all the suffering and hardship caused by its crackpot closed borders approach will have been for nothing. But 2024. 2024! WTAF??

I thought the Australian health minister had recently said that even with whole country vaccination travel won't necessarily be back to normal (today? yesterday?).

Interesting to hear the views of those in Australia who are affected by border restrictions, and the issues caused by 'close the borders'. I too have wondered (like another pp) whether there would be a reduction in emigration there and vice versa. (My instinct is no, but could be wrong)

@lljkk NZ vaccinations are happening slowly. My sil has just had her first shot (dr in public hospital). My midwife friends have had their first ones, and friend working in a MIQ hotel has had both.
They have temporarily halted all flights from India as so many positive cases were coming into MIQ.
The bubble with Australia will release 40% of the MIQ rooms back into the pool for those trying to get home from elsewhere.

@MaverickDanger I feel you. DS was born a week after we all got sent home from work back in March last year. He just turned one and has yet to meet a single member of his extended family. We won't even risk Queensland to see my cousin and her ds who is two weeks older because of the border issues.

@sashagabadon

U.K. is apparently at herd immunity now ( more or less, not sure I entirely agree). Through it and generally out the other side. Zero Covid strategy counties are still at the beginning imo.

I agree with this. Zero COVID was never going to work. How long do you keep a country fully locked? 5y, 10y or indefinitely?!?

Will people get their full salaries from the government, that rely on tourism?

I'm an immigrant in WA, and my family are back in the UK and Ireland. My mum is worried she wo'nt see me again, but she is in her 70s and in good health so I hope we will. My brother in law was diagnosed with a degenerative and incurable disease just before COVID, there is a real chance my husband wont see his younger brother again. And yet I still think the strong border is a good idea. It has enabled us to lead a fairly normal life except for no travel. We have had hardly anyone die. Once we are vaccinated we will be able to travel again. I'd rather be here, than the UK or Ireland any day.

If they are intending to pursue zero Covid long term, I think it will be very difficult. I know the Isle of Man have said elimination isn’t realistic long term and are pursuing vaccination and mitigation with a view to reopening borders (though I appreciate their proximity to the UK puts them in a different position, they did live with no restrictions for quite a while until recently)

@newstart1234

Is the average Australian annoyed about not being able to leave the country? I’m not sure if my perspective is skewed because I’m used to going to another country on a weekly basis, but it’s seems that Australia seems quite calm about the lack of international travel, despite having a high proportion of immigrants. I wonder what will happen to the level of immigration especially from Europe over the next decade.

I travelled internationally a lot pre Covid and I am so so grateful we shut down and have normal lives. I wouldn’t change that. The success of it relies on following with vaccination and then opening up. It’s a great plan. But as usual Scomo has fucked things up. I still think it was better than letting 1000s die and yes some have had to pay a price. But that price wasn’t death. I am frustrated but will wait for as long as it takes for us to be able to do this safely (despite already being fully immunized)

Obviously zero Covid was realistic. If places like the UK hadn't kept saying it wasn't and therefore not bothering to try.

Australia doesn't have to keep their borders shut. They just need to keep out people from UK, Europe (except Iceland, Isle of Man, and Channel Islands), and South America.

Australia is already preparing to open up to travel with New Zealand. I assume next could be East Asia.

Mrbob, do you anticipate having a booster jab before the boarder will open? I’m just curious as they’re already talking about boosters in autumn in the U.K.. It seems (as a casual observer) that Australia with next to zero cases could just ‘save’ the current vaccines and give them all out in a 6 month period before they open the boarder.

This is a globalised world and you can’t shut down borders without massive human consequences.

This. Please copy and paste this sentence on every thread where people complain Boris (or their respective country’s leader) didn’t shut the borders indefinitely. People have no idea how difficult and damaging that action is in the 2021 world.

I'm also beginning to wonder about the true motivations behind Australia, Denmark, and other places refusing AZ.

Clearly an extremely rare side effect when you get extremely rare side effects with any drug and vaccine isn't a sensible reason.

I wonder whether it's because AZ, whilst good, isn't as effective as Pfizer and Moderna. A goal of real herd immunity and zero or close enough covid is more realistically achieved.

AZ is only around 62% effective (the higher rates of 70% were associated with the half dosing regime, which we didn't adopt). Pfizer and Moderna, especially if given on the 3 week schedule, are over 90% effective. We can see how well things are going in Israel, with the majority vaccinated (on Pfizer with 3 week gap).

Our vaccine programme is being used alongside a government approach that accepts 50,000 additional deaths (and more long covid). That's not going to be the same everywhere in the world.

@EileenGC

This is a globalised world and you can’t shut down borders without massive human consequences.

This. Please copy and paste this sentence on every thread where people complain Boris (or their respective country’s leader) didn’t shut the borders indefinitely. People have no idea how difficult and damaging that action is in the 2021 world.

Well that's climate change and poverty campaigners told. If there's no intention of tackling excessive globalisation, then we need to accept things will only get worse. Our choice, of course.

In related (ish) news, France has announced plans to limit or ban some short haul flights to tackle climate change. I think it's domestic only for now but perhaps it's a turning point?