Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

I don't know if I'll ever be able to see some of my own elderly CEV family ever again. They're in the UK, like me, but (definitely until I'm fully vaccinated) it's too risky for the travel involved in visiting. If the scientists concerns are right, about the Indian variant (already in the UK) the wait will be even longer.

That's just bonkers, of course you can go and see them if they've been vaccinated and definitely once you are fully done too. Stop being so overly dramatic about the whole situation. What on earth is stopping you meeting them in one of your gardens this weekend??

That's just bonkers, of course you can go and see them if they've been vaccinated and definitely once you are fully done too.

I agree. What a ridiculous assertion by the PP.

many posters ask the same questions on repeat and when given reasonable answers from those actually living the situation that don't tie in with the overly dramatic "but the borders will never open! How will they ever get of out this!" they completely ignore it and keep up with the dramatics.

This is one of the best posts on the whole thread, and it is spot on.

What's stopping me is none of us drive (for medical reasons). London's public transport is still very busy - and will include many international arrivals fresh from Heathrow airport travelling to their 'home quarantine'. Including many potentially asymptomatic with the South African or Indian strains.

One of them is CEV as well as elderly, and has been told by their consultant to continue shielding despite the official pause.

Yes this won't last forever but when one of them is in fragile health, it might be too late.

That's just my personal situation and we're resigned to waiting and using video calls.

We won't, however, be the only family unable to safely meet for the time being.

My post wasn't to complain about my own family situation. It was to point out that during a pandemic open borders can, as equally as temporary restricted borders, keep families apart.

As has been pointed out to you now multiple times you can take a taxi to them. If you are still worried you can take a taxi and then rent an Airbnb nearby and isolate for 14 days before walking to their house.

Stop using your nonsensical made up self inflicted “separation” to suggest you understand posters who have ACTUALLY been separated are going through

Whatever my family decide for the level of risk we're prepared to take (taxis in London do regular airport runs...) we definitely won't be taking advice (or convoluted arrangements) from someone who thinks it's ok to put foreign travel above the lives and health of indigenous populations - and, indeed all vulnerable people. I don't know how many CV there are in Australia, but there's millions in the UK.

It's not just my family. Which was my point. For my own family, we've accepted the situation. The point is that plenty of families in the UK are separated by the pandemic. Various individual reasons why, of course. The worse and most permanent being one of the 150,000 dead.

By your own argument, there's ways around Australia's restricted borders. Take a flight, stay in quarantine, then see the family.

Also, 'pointed out multiple times'...your own personal opinion is just that. Flyornofly's personal opinion. Which isn't one I hold in much regard.

@Tealightsandd

I have pointed out several times that only citizens and permanent residents can enter Australia ( a few exceptions like essential business reasons)

So my family cannot fly in and quarantine for 14 days.
Citizens and permanent residents need to have permission to leave Australia. It is only granted for valid reasons( like a death) or essential business reasons. They are very strict and it can take weeks to for it to be granted.
You then run the risk of not being able to fly back to Australia (due to lack of quarantine places).

So I cannot travel to visit my family. If they end up serious I’ll in hospital I may not be granted permission to leave, or it may be granted too late for me to say goodbye.

Should say seriously ill

@MoppaSprings
I was replying to Fly, who has said in previous posts that she is from Australia

I'm sorry for the way the pandemic has affected your own situation.

However, if you were to take fly's advice of ignoring practical and/or safely and/or financial issues, you could travel from Australia to visit your family (I assume you're a permanent resident?).

*safety

I could only fly to see my family in the Uk if the government approved my reason for leaving. So if I am intending on not returning to Australia or if a family member is dying or has died. They do not just take your word for it, they actually check, which is why approval can take weeks and is not guaranteed.
So I can’t just leave Australia.

The only ways around this would be if I became a movie star or tennis player over night.

Alternatively I could abandon my husband and children here in Australia and fly to the uk and never come back to Australia, also making myself homeless in the process.

So many good choices to have....

@Quit4me

IMO Aus and NZ whilst living a normal life pretty much during this time sounds great, they have only kicked the can down the road. It will come to them, it’s inevitable. The only hope is that vaccines or treatments will save them from large numbers dying. If the vaccine roll out is as slow as feared then it will be a long time before they are able to open. I do wonder if Europe UK and US will be living normally and they will still be having lockdowns / shut in their own country

We haven’t kicked the can down the road. We will get vaccinated and we will never see the case load and death toll countries overseas have. I’m not trying to be smug but that’s the reality. There is a cost of course particularly to the more affected individuals, the overall economic cost for us is longer term, paying for the support programs and seeing the immigration fallout.

I haven’t read the full thread. But I grew up in different countries, I have siblings across the world, my mum grew up in different countries too. But she travelled by boat as a child to England from Australia. We are the first generation to regard fast affordable global travel as a right not a privilege, and people move so fast to ‘lives irrevocably ruined’. My life wasn’t ruined from growing up without zoom. It was a completely different life with my dc born overseas and being able to talk to their grandparents, and my brothers children whose wife is not Aussie said goodnight to their grandma every night on Skype. It’s hard, no one wants it. But I don’t understand why people aren’t more get on with it, we have better international communication than ever before. My parents got on with it with the options being write a letter or pay $$ a minute for a scratchy phone connection, and their parents got on with it minus the scratchy phone connection. I message my friends and family daily, we send a billion photos back and forth and video chat. I can’t feel my human rights are being neglected here. Will be great when we get to see our overseas family again. (I’m totally not referring to those with interrupted job plans who are in financial strife, just all these people who can’t see their families in real life)

I have just got on with it, but I moved here with all the modern technology and knowing that I was only a days flight away from getting home in an emergency. It’s no longer the case.

Most of the Australian posts are people who think all the restrictions were the correct decision, I am happy with how things have turned out. I am happy if there is the possibility of travel next year, but if there isn’t how long do you think is acceptable before travelling to see family is on the cards?

timeisnotaline Another well written and sensible post. I'm old enough to remember people of the generation above me who moved here from Europe, with no expectation of flying back to see family and friends more than once or twice in their lifetimes. People have got used to having what they want when they want it, and simply can't cope with any other way of life. Of course, not everyone is like that. I work with a number of people from overseas, none of them have had their ‘lives irrevocably ruined’, and even prior to covid they weren't flying backwards and forwards every year or two. Honestly, if you can't cope being away from family for a few years then maybe you should have stayed home.

All these threads do is reinforce the 'whinging Poms' reputation.

I’ve no skin in the game so don’t mind either way. Most the posts from Aussie residents seem to be supportive of keeping the current set up so that’s good.

I find it interesting partly because I was offered a job in aus years ago but I decided to move instead to Denmark because I wouldn’t want to be so far from friends and family so it’s been a chance to ponder.

It’s also interesting from my perspective because, for a period of time, the border here was also very much closed and I absolutely hated it. Like I said I think it’s from our perspective here of travelling across to different countries regularly it seemed a very big infringement. I’m not sure it’s comparable to years ago before international travel was as easy. Before the European Schengen Agreement it would not be possible to live as people do today where I am. There is effectively no border and people organise their lives accordingly. Of course people managed before, but it’s been in place so long that the communities surrounding the borders have changed in response to it. Similarly those who’ve moved to or from aus in the last 20 years or so must have considered that travel ‘back’ would take days not months or years and taken this into account when making decision to move.

@eaglejulesk I can be away from my family for a few years and I am happy here. It doesn’t stop me worrying about the health of my eldarly relatives. I have missed 2 funerals over the past year and have not been able to meet the new members of my family.
I am ok with this mainly, but it doesn’t stop the worry and the government’s lack of(visible) plan for when we will be able to travel isn’t helping.

It’s also worth mentioning that the ‘not recovering until 2024’ means airlines and airports project to be back at 2019 passenger numbers. That’s a whole lot go business and leisure travel and part of the modelling is assuming a reluctance to travel from many, not restrictions. Life for people wanting to urgently see family should be business as usual much earlier.

I hope so. I’m usually a pretty positive person and I will be so glad to be wrong about any misgivings I’ve had about timeframes of when they allow travel.

To tealights - I would encourage you to see your relatives as much as you can taking the basic safety precautions. Lockdowns were to protect the health services and not each individual. I have lost 2 close people to Covid this year. Each were at the end of their lives and the vaccine or better social distancing would not mean they would still be here. They were totally alone when they died and for weeks before. I don’t think I’ll ever ‘get over’ that. I supported the restrictions because I could understand the peril at that point to everyone. That doesn’t mean I don’t value life towards the end of life. Of course I do but Covid doesn’t, people at the end of their lives will continue forevermore to to be pushed off this mortal coil by Covid 19, despite vaccines or treatments. Time waits for no one.

@MoppaSprings

I have just got on with it, but I moved here with all the modern technology and knowing that I was only a days flight away from getting home in an emergency. It’s no longer the case.

Most of the Australian posts are people who think all the restrictions were the correct decision, I am happy with how things have turned out. I am happy if there is the possibility of travel next year, but if there isn’t how long do you think is acceptable before travelling to see family is on the cards?

Moppa I wouldn’t take these critical posts too seriously, some just hang around with attacks on from every angle on each thread.

@MoppaSprings don’t worry tealights just spends all her time berating people for wanting sustainable alternatives to being locked down for years. The reality is that there are lots of people for whom lockdown has been good for whatever reason (I won’t speculate on the psychology) and they enjoy watching others be controlled and isolated by it too.

And I will say again - it’s fascinating that in the 1950s emigrated with no expectation of contact. But that is NOT the basis on which any of us did so. And the UN and other human rights groups think it is a breach of fundamental human rights to prevent Australians returning from australia on a long term basis (I am NOT talking about the initial border closure). It’s been litigated in Australian federal court in 2 weeks. So it’s not just random selfish MNers who can see a problem.