Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

AZ is highly effective against hospitalisation or death. Where its efficacy is less clear is for mild and moderate illness. Which is arguably not relevant.

Very good news if that's the case fruitandflowers

That's been known for months

Yes @Cookerhood. I don’t know why everyone keeps repeating that AZ isn’t effective.

Where Australia and similar countries are going to struggle is with a disease that is globally endemic and where even a fully vaccinated population will have breakthrough cases and probably breakthrough hospitalisations and deaths.

It will be much harder for somewhere that is currently near zero Covid to move ‘up’ to that position than for countries that have had significant Covid to settle on an ‘acceptable’ annual level of Covid deaths. It’s where lack of transparency from governments on their long-term strategies is a real problem - from all countries.

Please don’t take this to mean that the U.K. has got it right (though I do roll my eyes a bit at those who want a full Australia style border closure; I hope those people really like turnips.)

@MaxHanno

The UK is the travel hub of the world...whereas Australia and NZ are in the arse end of nowhere. You simply can't compare them

Yes

@fruitandflowers

Yes *@Cookerhood*. I don’t know why everyone keeps repeating that AZ isn’t effective.

I thought it was effective. A poster on a different thread today suggested otherwise. Something to do with transmission and the South African strain. Fingers crossed their fears are unfounded.

NYC is a major travel hub. It still restricted it's borders when it needed to. As did Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Thailand, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam. It wasn't just Australia and New Zealand. No one's eating just turnips in any of these countries. Restricted borders isn't the same as closed to food and medical imports. Australia received an import of AZ from the UK in fact just recently.

But yes, for the future the UK (and everywhere else) definitely needs to have a rethink about excessive globalisation. There's a need to pull back a little on the travel hub front. Climate change isn't going away.

The arrogance of the UK being the only country to get it right is astonishing. Are you all brainwashed? Or trying to convince yourselves everything will be alright? Nobody is looking at you with envy or admiration. Nobody!

This is the alternative to Australia's way. It's particularly unfair on Londoners, who are being denied the level of protection and freedom of opening up as the rest of the UK.

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-coronavirus-latest-covid-live-london-surge-testing-b929733.html?amp

@anyoldtime

The arrogance of the UK being the only country to get it right is astonishing. Are you all brainwashed? Or trying to convince yourselves everything will be alright? Nobody is looking at you with envy or admiration. Nobody!

Great honestly who cares how people are looking at us.

It’s still an issue worth discussing when Aus delay opening of borders esp for those of us with close family separated by them.

Great honestly who cares how people are looking at us
You’re not in a position to be critical of other counties despite what you have convinced yourselves.

Honestly I don’t care.

If you don’t like what you’re reading, don’t.

I see Morrison has now come out and said they can open the borders but not if state premiers shut the internal borders when cases inevitably come in. So basically ensuring nothing will ever happen!

Fly are you going back?

@anyoldtime

Great honestly who cares how people are looking at us You’re not in a position to be critical of other counties despite what you have convinced yourselves.

What utter nonsense. Anyone, no matter where they live in the world, is entitled to think critically or approvingly about the actions of their own government or anyone else’s. You don’t have to agree with them or read it.

Efficacy after 1 dose of az is 76% after one does of pfizer/moderna its 50/52%. After 2 doses of az its 84% and 100% against severe disease and death. Pfizer and moderna is 95 against severe disease and death. I'd argue that az is the better vaccine.

Pfizer and moderna is 95 against severe disease and death. I'd argue that az is the better vaccine.

That’s not actually true. All three of the vaccines in use are pretty much 100% against severe illness and death based on the data we have so far.

Pfizer IS better at preventing mild illness, but that’s a low priority really.

"This is the alternative to Australia's way. It's particularly unfair on Londoners, who are being denied the level of protection and freedom of opening up as the rest of the UK."

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/uk-coronavirus-latest-covid-live-london-surge-testing-b929733.html?amp

Well, so far London is having the same level of opening up as rest of England - the prediction hasn't happened quite yet! I agree there's plenty of time though. Not suggesting I think anyone is looking at UK with envy/admiration - but that isn't really something that matters, very much, is it?

I can see for many Australians open state borders might be more important than opening to overseas travel. In Australia is it really a question of a divide between those who want to see overseas family and those who either don't have such family, or don't really mind not seeing them? For people in the latter groups, and young so not at very great risk from corona (leaving aside post-viral syndrome), I can see there may be difficulties in motivating them to get the vaccine.
It seems a long time ago but at one point people were worried about take up in the UK. (And of course there are still vaccine hesitant people here, though perhaps fewer than expected).

@TheKeatingFive

Pfizer and moderna is 95 against severe disease and death. I'd argue that az is the better vaccine.

That’s not actually true. All three of the vaccines in use are pretty much 100% against severe illness and death based on the data we have so far.

Pfizer IS better at preventing mild illness, but that’s a low priority really.

As I heard someone say the other day "The best vaccine is the one you are offered".

@MarshaBradyo am pondering a very quick trip (2wks quarantine/1wk trip) as don’t think I can put the children through quarantine (nor can I take that long off work whereas I can work through quarantine if I leave them). Not ideal and I really would rather not leave them for 3 weeks but what’s the alternative? Not seeing my family for years on end (or not at all, if the worst happens and one of them dies?)

Efficacy after 1 dose of az is 76% after one does of pfizer/moderna its 50/52%. After 2 doses of az its 84% and 100% against severe disease and death. Pfizer and moderna is 95 against severe disease and death. I'd argue that az is the better vaccine.

Before you start arguing about efficacy, you need to know how it is worked out. You can't really compare them.

@anyoldtime

The arrogance of the UK being the only country to get it right is astonishing. Are you all brainwashed? Or trying to convince yourselves everything will be alright? Nobody is looking at you with envy or admiration. Nobody!

Has anyone on this thread suggested that the UK was the only country to get it right? I certainly didn't - I said that we could have had a partial border closure last year but only if we worked with Ireland. We know from December that hauliers were low risk and so could have let them through. And if we hadn't allowed overseas holidays last summer we might not have had as serious a second wave, although I am not entirely convinced that was the main reason for it.

The vaccine programme is about the only thing this government has got right.

As for arguing about what vaccine is better. They all work to prevent serious illness. So even if you get covid, it will be like a mild to bad cold. That should be sufficient for everyone.

I can see for many Australians open state borders might be more important than opening to overseas travel

Totally, especially as they were closed for much of last year.

And lets face it, we don't even have freedom of travel within the UK yet.

[quote Flyornofly]@MarshaBradyo am pondering a very quick trip (2wks quarantine/1wk trip) as don’t think I can put the children through quarantine (nor can I take that long off work whereas I can work through quarantine if I leave them). Not ideal and I really would rather not leave them for 3 weeks but what’s the alternative? Not seeing my family for years on end (or not at all, if the worst happens and one of them dies?)[/quote]
Good luck, I agree re difficulty of hotel quarantine with young dc as I have a 3.5 year old (and older dc).

I’m not quite at stage of going, nor could I pass whatever is needed to go, but I really don’t want it to be years.

The vaccine programme is about the only thing this government has got right.

Except every other country disagrees
with the use of AZ for under 50s.

As for arguing about what vaccine is better. They all work to prevent serious illness. So even if you get covid, it will be like a mild to bad cold. That should be sufficient for everyone.

Unless you are one of the unlucky ones affected by AZ clotting.