Australia says no to AZ and J&J vaccines--vax rollout likely to be delayed by months

[Kokeshi123]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/13/australia-wont-buy-johnson-johnsons-one-dose-covid-vaccine-due-to-astrazeneca-similarities

I know quite a lot of Ozzies who are completely stranded outside their country due to the fact that they cannot keep small children within a hotel room for two weeks and pay a fortune for the priviledge. As it is, it's looking like Oz will not be removing its quarantine requirements until well into 2022 at the earliest.

I mean, I do think that a basic strategy of "(1) Hold borders tight with Zero Covid until the vax>(2) Unroll vax> (3) Open borders" is a sound one, but it does depend on the second and third bits of the plan actually happening...

@Chamonixshoopshoop

I think if we did what Oz did here in the UK, people would be screaming human rights violations... keeping families apart, shutting the borders in such a strict way. But then it’s worked hasn’t it?! But it wouldn’t have worked in a socialist, liberal democracy. There would be riots.

Yes there would be screaming and tantrums. How dare we try to save the economy, lives, and health! Stamp foot stamp foot.

Keeping families apart
So instead we keep families apart through lockdowns and death. Way to go.

It's direct family btw Flyornofly

@Tealightsandd you keep saying that - is it not possible that the U.K. government has decided the impact of shutting borders is too burdensome and is not prepared to pay the price of that? (Yes, including letting some more people die / get sick as a result)

You sound a bit deranged.

I think closing borders is the right way to go but that discussion belongs to Australians.
The countries who have administered AZ potentially have bigger issues than borders

What could be causing the clots? In the Oxford/AstraZeneca cases, many of those affected have tested positive for antibodies that bind to a molecule released by platelets, called platelet factor 4 or PF4. The vaccine may somehow trigger production of these antibodies, which cause multiple small clots to form in the blood and that can use up platelets, says Andreas Greinacher at the University of Greifswald in Germany. It resembles a syndrome in which similar antibodies can be triggered by the blood-thinning treatment heparin, says Greinacher, who is an expert on the heparin side effect.

"Belated border control and real quarantine would've stopped this strain talking hold. Labour know this, which is why they've been calling for it."

Yes, it would be interesting to know what labour have said about the Ireland/NI issue? Have they referred to this?

Deranged? For preferring the option that saved lives, health - AND the economy. Our economy is struggling. The economies in places like Australia, New Zealand, Japan, South Korea, and Singapore, are in better shape than ours. Ok then I'll take being deranged.

Border control is less damaging to the economy than repeated lockdowns. Less damaging to mental and physical health too.

You keep repeating that as if it’s a fact. But you haven’t said how you address the fact we have a land border, and how we would manage our food supply chain. The fact is that there is nothing to say that’s true for the U.K. you continuing to assert it doesn’t make it so.

You are forgetting that Australia has also had multiple lockdowns.

Most of them have been short and sharp, mainly to enable them to contact people who have been in contact with a positive case.

Melbourne had a horrible time of it last year whilst the rest of Australia was fine, that was with tough border controls.

" is it not possible that the U.K. government has decided the impact of shutting borders is too burdensome and is not prepared to pay the price of that?"

Or - that the UK govt has decided that it is just not possible to shut them completely - or even to impose universal quarantine on people entering. It would be interesting to know if UK and Ireland govts had had any discussions on a joint policy and rejected the idea, or whether it has not even got that far.

@anyoldtime
Actually with the South African strain just having been let in to the UK, the discussion over border control (and learning lessons from other countries) very much belongs to the UK too. As the UK Labour Party have realised.

As for AZ. There's way more chance of abnormal clotting from actual covid or long covid, than from an extremely rare vaccine side effect.

Obviously in Australia where it's almost zero covid, there's a different risk balance. Personally on AZ I tend to agree with others on here. It's likely unnecessary caution. Possibly motivated by politics or supply issues, I don't know. Or perhaps concern over its efficacy against the South African strain?

Definitely not a supply issue as they have manufacturing set up and ready to go.

Would you like AZ to rollout to under 50s in Australia @MoppaSprings? I'm under 50 and happily had it. What is the majority public view? Do Australians want it or do they want to wait for Moderna? I know you were manufacturing your own but is there enough supply currently if people want it? If there is and if people do want it, would it possibly be offered privately to those who want it?

I don’t think they have any orders of moderna, (happy to be corrected if I’m wrong)

They have ordered more Pfizer but no idea when that will arrive.

I would take the risk of AZ, but I’m at the end of the list for a vaccine.

I don’t think they are trying to cover up not having enough AZ. They have heavily backed that one.

The article doesn’t mention Moderna

Looks like Pfizer and AZ with Novavax currently in discussion

If you read it it looks like criticism is aimed at not buying a good range

“We have been making the point now for some time Australia needs more vaccine options on the table,” Butler told ABC News Breakfast.

“Most other countries have been looking at five or six vaccines. The UK, for example, has seven deals.

The UK is the travel hub of the world...whereas Australia and NZ are in the arse end of nowhere. You simply can't compare them

@Youhavetoquitwhileyoureahead

It will be really interesting to see what happens to emigration, Keating. People emigrating to Australia now are presumably not doing so in the belief that there will always be unrestricted travel to see relations in the future. Because even if/when it's reinstated, it seems at least plausible that if there's another virus the restrictions will be back. In the 1960s people on the £10 boats presumably did so in the knowledge that they might rarely see their families again (expense). They still went though.

Over to Aus and N/Z mners: is there any concern about the impact on emigration to Aus/N/Z, or is that not really regarded as an economic necessity/benefit to society?

I was wondering about this too. Emigrating to NZ was something I considered quite seriously in the past, but I think I'd be a lot more reluctant now - not so much because of this pandemic, but in the event of another virus scare I think more countries will be eager to impose tight border restrictions early after having been caught with their pants down this time, even if it turns out to be a completely disproportionate response. And I'm sure NZ can cope without me, personally But it would be interesting to see if there's a broader change in the pattern of migration, not just to Australasia but globally.

I don’t think they are trying to cover up not having enough AZ. They have heavily backed that one.

Isn't one of the big criticisms that most of what they do have is AstraZeneca, and that's part of the reason why this decision means the rollout's up shit creek?

@MaxHanno

The UK is the travel hub of the world...whereas Australia and NZ are in the arse end of nowhere. You simply can't compare them

Yes, covid is a harsh lesson learned in being a major travel hub to an excessive extent. Perhaps post pandemic, and with climate change to consider too, thought will be given to that.

Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, Thailand. All fairly big travel hubs. NYC too. All did the same as Australia and New Zealand.

Interesting about the vaccine situation.

Yes that’s what I mean( athough I don’t know if they production of the vaccine has started yet)

I think, to understand the decision with AZ, it would help to know how much is available right now.

If there is good supply, perhaps it could be offered privately to those who want it? It's a shame to waste it. Or else I suppose it could be sent elsewhere.

[quote Flyornofly]@Tealightsandd you seem very invested in this for a poster who has no connection to australia other than a “family friend” and someone you know in the U.K. who married an Australian. Perhaps you could pipe down and let actual Australians on both sides of the border discuss how they feel about it rather than trying to turn this into an assessment of how the two countries have done?

There is plenty that can be done now. Why is quarantine still so restricted? Why can’t vaccinated people do home quarantine? I would be happy to rent a house for 2 weeks and quarantine with my family. Why is the government doing nothing about this if they think borders will have to stay shut for years?

Why are they being so so shit with vaccine rollout? Why shouldn’t Australians who have overseas family be allowed to leave?

These are serious questions that can’t be dismissed with WELL ITS BETTER THAN 150,000 DEAD IN BRITAIN.[/quote]
My thoughts exactly @Flyornofly
I'm an Australian living in UK. Neither country has got it right. The lack of inaction from government in Aus is ridiculous. There are a good number of either Australian residents with family overseas or Australian residents living abroad with family in Australia. Yes I chose to move (DH is British) but when I did I had no idea COVID would mean a once 24 hour flight would now be completely impossible.

It wouldn’t make sense to give az in aus, the risk from it is bigger than Covid. That’s the paradox they’re facing. An expert in Denmark has the named the new disease caused by az vaccine. Jens Lundgren - vaccine induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia if anyone wants to google it.

He thinks 1 in 40,000 get it but the mortality is much lower of course. It’s worth risking if the other option is Covid naturally.

It wouldn’t make sense to give az in aus, the risk from it is bigger than Covid

It’s not without downside ie delay to borders opening.

If, and I emphasise the if, it's true (as suggested by posters on other threads) that AZ isn't effective against the South African strain than it looks like Australia is, again, doing the right thing. I hope it's wrong about AZ but Australia are in the position the UK isn't. Australia can afford to wait a bit longer.