Under 40s may also be advised to avoid AZ

[MimiPigeon]

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/08/vaccines-advice-could-still-change-30s-jcvi-suggests/

Sorry I don’t have a share token. But it looks like JCVI is suggesting that people in their 30s may also be advised not to take AZ. This could be a game changer for 30 somethings who are still trying to make a decision about whether to get vaccinated in the near future.

[quote bumbleymummy]@bumblingbovine49 There are already ongoing trials for confining vaccines and France and Germany are suggesting a different second jab for younger people who have had the first AZ.[/quote]
I know research is ongoing but there are no clear results on this yet. I did say that I think it will turn out that mixing vaccines will be safe and maybe even better. But we don't now that or what any risks are yet. In a worst case scenario you could have an anaphylactic reaction to your first dose and a blood clot after your second .

I know that is vanishingly unlikely but I am just making a point that if you are really worried about such a miniscule risk for one type of vaccine why introduce another which will have similarly tiny but possibly different risks associated with it. If you have had one type of vaccine safely, I would imagine that a second one of the same type for you is likely to be less risky than a new different one . If your body has already tolerated on type of vaccine fine , why wouldn't it again?

Preferring an unknown risk that is only just being researched at the moment against a known (and absolutely tiny) risk that has been calculated out of millions millions of real events in a real world scenario seems bonkers to me .

I suppose it just goes to show how humans really are not driven by reason and rational thought at all

Just read this Greece will limit use of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine to people above age 30 following rare cases of blood clots, its national vaccinations committee said on Friday, falling into line with other European countries.

To me the current situation in the EU is that they're waiting and seeing, most of the countries have got over 60s to vaccinate as they've not done it yet soo they're focusing in these ages and meanwhile waiting to see what more data comes out until below 60s (for Spain this is not til June) comes. I'm spanish and today I've received already 3 Meme's laughing at the changing of advice every few days for the vaccine, this is causing big problems of trust and people are refusing the vaccine even in the ages where they are allowed to have it (In Madrid yesterday 62% of the people between 60 and 65 didnt attend their appointment, they're blaming the goverment for continuously changing the advice)

So I can't say that what other countries are doing is the right approach

I'm mid 30s and will get the second jab of AZ when due in June all being well. I really hope the choice isn't taken out of my hands. My OH nearly died of a flu like virus in 2019 so I'm really willing to take the risk as it seems minimal for me.

Hi, I wonder if someone with medical knowledge would answer this for me?

As far as I can see, the rhetoric around most vaccinations, particularly the childhood immunisation programmes, is that we have to vaccinate everyone to protect the vulnerable who can't be vaccinated. There appears to be a substantial group of vulnerable children and people who cannot be immunised, so it's for the greater good that we aim to protect them.

I am Pro-Vaccines, my children are all vaccinated and I myself have taken all vaccines offered to me through pregnancies.

However, the only people who cannot avail of Covid vaccines are people who have had an allergic reaction. All other vulnerable groups, the very elderly, the very ill are encouraged to take it.

So why does it matter if a minority of healthy people don't get vaccinated, if all the vulnerable are protected?

@nordica

I'm 38 and definitely very pro-vax - have been eagerly waiting for my turn, especially as so many of my friends in their 30s and 40s have already had theirs.

I do have some concerns about the AZ jab though, based on the fact that if I lived elsewhere in the world the recommendation would be different. I'm actually originally from one of the countries only giving AZ to the older age groups now, and can't help thinking why should I trust the MHRA/JCVI more than the similar bodies in my native country?

Of course I understand the risk of these clots is tiny and it would be very, very likely I would be absolutely fine. I'm probably going to take the AZ jab as soon as offered.

It does feel like the 30s and 40s age groups in the UK are expected to accept the risk simply because that's the situation with vaccine supply here. It isn't purely a scientific/medical recommendation in that sense - it's not any safer to get the AZ jab here than it is in Finland, Canada or France. If there were millions of doses of Pfizer or Moderna ready and only a few doses of AZ, then I have no doubt the recommendation here would be different.

But it is what it is and at least we are lucky in the UK to have such a good vaccination programme. I wouldn't want to live in Brazil, Mexico or India right now...

I could have written much of this and can relate to it. I did choose to have the AZ vaccine already, despite a personal medical history that could make me more likely to form clots. I feel that whatever my risk of blood clots from the vaccine, I’d have a higher risk of clots from covid.

I’ve not had any unexpected side effects and will be having the second dose quite happily.

@hollyangel there are lots of potentially vulnerable people who are not being vaccinated at the moment. Pregnant women for one. I think it’s still the case that no under 18s are being vaccinated so anyone who is medically vulnerable in that bracket will also be at risk.

There are already ongoing trials for confining vaccines and France and Germany are suggesting a different second jab for younger people who have had the first AZ.

I can’t really take anyone seriously who is holding up France as an example of how to run a vaccine programme. Despite having vaccines available, they currently have 400 deaths a day which is quite a contrast to the proportion of rare reactions being quoted. Obviously this is due to lockdown decisions as well, but presumably if those 400 a day had been vaccinated quite a large proportion of them might still be alive.

It does feel like the 30s and 40s age groups in the UK are expected to accept the risk simply because that's the situation with vaccine supply here.

As opposed to those countries who currently have hardly any access to vaccines at all.

As opposed to those countries who currently have hardly any access to vaccines at all.

Exactly. Some posters sound like they’d prefer higher cases as being experienced by so many countries. Wearing.

But it is what it is and at least we are lucky in the UK to have such a good vaccination programme. I wouldn't want to live in Brazil, Mexico or India right now..

May I just point out that India has opened vaccinations to everyone above 45? The Indian vaccination programme isn't as terrible as you think, though the population makes it very difficult and there is now increasing shortage. It has certainly done better than many richer countries.
I agree that the UK has had a very good vaccination programme though.

@MarshaBradyo no that's incorrect. It's compared to countries that have had a slower start with their vaccine programmes but are also on schedule to offer vaccination to all adult population by end of September. We're not comparing ourselves to Brazil here, but to Germany/Canada/Netherlands/Finland/Noway/Iceland...

[quote QwertyGirly]@MarshaBradyo no that's incorrect. It's compared to countries that have had a slower start with their vaccine programmes but are also on schedule to offer vaccination to all adult population by end of September. We're not comparing ourselves to Brazil here, but to Germany/Canada/Netherlands/Finland/Noway/Iceland...[/quote]
France?

Where would we be now with new variant last year and limited use of AZ?

Would we be opening up as we are?

@hollyangel in people with things like blood cancer, it may not be effective
My consultant said he can't say yet whether the vaccine will work for me as studies ongoing

No we would be closing down like other countries. We had to close down in December, remember?

@QwertyGirly

No we would be closing down like other countries. We had to close down in December, remember?

Exactly so what are you saying?

My point is that our vaccination programme has allowed us to get ahead and open up.

Others think that we’ve made incorrect decisions against other countries. I disagree and you can see the proof on the data. Cases are low and even with schools opening we go to next stage.

Hopefully we keep going with this and if we do it is in a large part to better AZ decisions.

The way I feel about it is that, as it currently stands, with the data available, I'm happy to have my second AZ jab (booked for 22nd), but what if in a few weeks the data changes again, and the risk/outcome is worse? I will have the second vaccination, but I can definitely empathise with those that are worried. This is all so new, and nobody really knows how things are going to progress.
The last 12 months have been so dreadful, the desire to do whatever it takes to get out of it is very strong. Just keeping everything crossed we don't all regret it.

@WaterBottle123

Jesus wept.

If you're not willing to get AZ also pls stop driving your car, as your risk of being involved in a fatal car crash is 1/5000 MUCH higher than the the 4/1000000 blood clot risk.

When did people become so stupid?

Risk vs reward you moron.

Driving my car has a huge benefit for when I need to, y’know, go somewhere.

Having a vaccine that puts me at risk of a blood clot when I could have an alternative that doesn’t = no benefit.

@QueenPaw @Kimye4eva Thank you for answering.

Pregnant women are being vaccinated if they so wish, lots of pregnant healthcare workers have been vaccinated.
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

They are also currently doing trials on children, with the aim of vaccinating children in the near future:
www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/pfizer-launches-pediatric-trial-test-covid-vaccine-children-rcna500

So my question really refers to the point at which anyone who wants to be vaccinated can? So then why will it matter if others choose not to get vaccinated?

@hollyangel because even though I'm vaccinated, it might be completely ineffective for me. And lots of others

Sorry posted too soon. So I could be a super spreader to people who can't be vaccinated, or who the vaccine isn't effective for. Now imagine if I was still working for the emergency services...
I'm also CEV so likely to tie up a hospital bed

I don't have actual research links just news reports and I am not trying to catastrophise but if a variant becomes more lethal it is likely that younger people will be more affected. That does not mean younger people will be at high risk just at more risk than now

That would make COVID quite the outlier since variants are almost always less lethal. I really wouldn’t worry too much about variants

*Risk vs reward you moron.

Driving my car has a huge benefit for when I need to, y’know, go somewhere.

Having a vaccine that puts me at risk of a blood clot when I could have an alternative that doesn’t = no benefit.*

So there's no risk in choosing to wait longer for your preferred vaccine, in which time you could contract coronavirus and potentially become really quite unwell? When any vaccine that you are offered has a vanishingly rare chance of causing you any harm?

I'd say risk vs reward is pretty high there tbh- particularly when the reward also involves helping protect the people around you.

@MrsFezziwig

There are already ongoing trials for confining vaccines and France and Germany are suggesting a different second jab for younger people who have had the first AZ.

I can’t really take anyone seriously who is holding up France as an example of how to run a vaccine programme. Despite having vaccines available, they currently have 400 deaths a day which is quite a contrast to the proportion of rare reactions being quoted. Obviously this is due to lockdown decisions as well, but presumably if those 400 a day had been vaccinated quite a large proportion of them might still be alive.

I’m not ‘holding them up as an example’, it’s just a fact that they are suggesting a different second dose for people who have had one dose.

@UsedUpUsername

I don't have actual research links just news reports and I am not trying to catastrophise but if a variant becomes more lethal it is likely that younger people will be more affected. That does not mean younger people will be at high risk just at more risk than now

That would make COVID quite the outlier since variants are almost always less lethal. I really wouldn’t worry too much about variants

Both the UK variant and the Brazilian variant are more transmissible and more deadly than the original strain. That's what makes them so scary and why we're in such a rush to get everyone vaccinated.

@beguilingeyes do you have a link to a study showing that the Brazilian strain is more deadly?