People are going to start feeling a bit silly

[LemonSherbetFancies]

So many talking about how this is the great reset, how this doesn't stop until we say it does and how we are never coming out of lockdown etc.
Think they are going to feel a bit stupid over the coming weeks!

am I the only one not seeing (m)any solutions on this thread? if not some kind of proof you're not contagious then what? just go back to normal and let the variants rage through the population? learn to live with it and watch the NHS go down?

If the vaccine stops you getting Covid. Why then do we need vaccine passports only after everyone has been offered the vaccine and presumable enough people have had it to give herd immunity or very nearly?

Why are vaccinated people saying they won’t mix with the unvaccinated if it won’t affect them?

This government cares about the economy above all
Wrong.
This government cares about.

1. being in power so they can defend and implement ...
2. economic policies that greatly benefit the 0.1% meanwhile distract the masses with pointless statue wars.
3. then a distant third. the wider economy

@Bythemillpond I suppose that's the choice, have passports, don't have passports.
not everyone is having the vaccine.
there's scenarios where adults could mix with potentially unvaccinated kids, whose school bubbles would burst disrupting education and parents work, also (rarely) turning very serious.
if we dont have passports then certian events won't happen and pubs etc might be less popular, so the economy could suffer?

just thinking out loud...

@RichardMarxisinnocent @AcornAutumn
once the covid 'passport' is digitalised, it firstly sets the standard of allowing non healthcare concerns to have a level of access to your healthcare information - which in itself won't bother most people. Most people will also trust this information is safe... though bear in mind the billions spent on track and trace contracts to 'mates' and all they used was a damn spreadsheet!
Anyways, it provides a red and green light situation. requirements to stay green or move to red can be easily changed.. and then additional factors can be added in. (The issue is we have no idea what those additional factors may be)

In China (widening trials) your score decides costs of travel, monitors what is eaten (to avoid food wastage) so restrictions in restaurants. scores could go down by 'behaviours' - so anti social behaviour or a mother buying wine could drop your score.

It seems ridiculous n extreme and I'm not saying that the China version is where we are heading at all - but when you set demands and restrictions in a digitalised simple red and green light system, and we have the technology in place already to progress this to a 'stronger' version it is unnerving. Imagine being denied free healthcare because Amazon filtered data on your unreasonably high Gin purchases! lol sounds daft but its actually not an impossibility :-)

Thanks for your reply @tiredofitall99

I am questioning everything atm- the information onslaught from all corners is bewildering and I'm trying to orientate myself as best I can.

It also creates a situation where citizens police other citizens. The bar manager becomes the agent of policing civilian compliance.

I’m assuming that we are going to have yearly vaccines, that new variants will come and we will need to know who, is vaccinated with what.

I was thinking we might be out of this in a few months, but feeling less hopeful looking at India.

This is all completely frightening. Where is our say in all this? How our futures will be for ourselves and our children.

This is all completing frightening. Where’s our say in this and what we want the future to be for our children? I don’t want it all to be about robots and data collection.
If this is the case, I still can’t see why so many governments would be agreeing to it and why many doctors, politicians, lawyers etc wouldn’t be paying attention and questioning this?

@Heyupeasterbunny
It really is isn't it. I'm hoping the gravity of the situation we are facing will be grasped by more people and quickly.

Sorry, posted twice.

So, looking at all this, who believes the virus came accidentally from an animal?

@Bythemillpond

If the vaccine stops you getting Covid. Why then do we need vaccine passports only after everyone has been offered the vaccine and presumable enough people have had it to give herd immunity or very nearly?

Why are vaccinated people saying they won’t mix with the unvaccinated if it won’t affect them?

Vaccines are not 100% from everyone who has it. If they say 90% have immunity that's not everyone has 90% immunity. That's out of every 100 people, 90 have immunity, and 10 don't.

You don't know if you're one of the 10 or one of the 90, so if you are vulnerable then it's fair enough you can be nervous.

It's also protecting the (generally vulnerable) members of the population who cannot, for various genuine reasons, have it.

If you are at a gathering where 100% of people have had the injection, and it's 90% accurate, then, say with 30 people that's 3 people in the room who potentially have it as the injection hasn't worked.
If it's 75% people have had the injection, that's about 7 people who haven't had it, and about 2 who the injection hasn't worked. So 9 people in total-3 times the risk that one of them has it and you come into contact.
If it's 50% of people, that's 15 people who haven't had it and 1-2 (1.5!) who the injection hasn't worked, so 16-17 people, more than 5 times the risk.

Add into that that on average the people who haven't had it due to a decision are certainly perceived as being more likely to think Covid is made up and take risks, so more likely to come into contact and less likely to wear a mask. So the perception would be that they are a greater risk on top of that.
Whether that's fair or not, I'm not sure.

[quote tiredofitall99]**@RichardMarxisinnocent* @AcornAutumn*
once the covid 'passport' is digitalised, it firstly sets the standard of allowing non healthcare concerns to have a level of access to your healthcare information - which in itself won't bother most people. Most people will also trust this information is safe... though bear in mind the billions spent on track and trace contracts to 'mates' and all they used was a damn spreadsheet!
Anyways, it provides a red and green light situation. requirements to stay green or move to red can be easily changed.. and then additional factors can be added in. (The issue is we have no idea what those additional factors may be)

In China (widening trials) your score decides costs of travel, monitors what is eaten (to avoid food wastage) so restrictions in restaurants. scores could go down by 'behaviours' - so anti social behaviour or a mother buying wine could drop your score.

It seems ridiculous n extreme and I'm not saying that the China version is where we are heading at all - but when you set demands and restrictions in a digitalised simple red and green light system, and we have the technology in place already to progress this to a 'stronger' version it is unnerving. Imagine being denied free healthcare because Amazon filtered data on your unreasonably high Gin purchases! lol sounds daft but its actually not an impossibility :-)[/quote]
Right, okay, but why only the mRNA vaccines? Millions of people have had and will be having non-mRNA vaccines.

Can someone please reassure me this isn’t the case 😩

I still don’t understand why more wouldn’t be questioning it, we have a lot of smart people in the country. How on earth could the likes of Boris explain this to his family.

Why have they brought in the bill not being allowed to protest, what is their justification for this?

@Heyupeasterbunny and @Littlefiendsusan
I always say, ALWAYS follow the money trail.... it shows who controls who and who manipulates what :-(
I have a son and I really don't want the world that's potentially coming up for him

@Heyupeasterbunny. As long as taxes are being taken from the hard earned workers the government will continue for as long as they can, securing not only the tories but with giving all the contracts to their buddies(test and trace, PPE etc) And as for Liberty a passport would be able to stop you from travelling abroad unless vaccinated, it would prevent you entering arena (football matches, cinemas) This comes within another right of freedom of movement. You have freedoms, such as freedom of speech (now taken away because of tories changing rights to protest) You have freedom of rights to a private life. Your private life is being eroded. What if you didn’t want a vaccine but wanted to start a family. Is the NHS going to stop people from having help if they turned the vaccine down. There are other freedoms that you have which were enshrined in laws made when all member states joined the European Union. If people needed to take legal action against their government they could go above their head if they weren’t successful and take the case to the European Court of Human Rights. This has been done many times and has succeeded, though you won’t read that in the papers much. If people look into, research what is being done and find things out factually then the government started with all these notions that people who thought this way were just conspiracy theorists. And I’m not advocating that all ‘conspiracy’s are true. But I think the reason you’re not hearing from them is because they’ve gone onto other channels of social media . And after trying to inform the public about what is happening to them many times it becomes pointless and not worth arguing with some people because they are too entrenched with what they’ve been told to do by they’re government.

tired I might have misunderstood you

You said digitalising the MRNA vaccine

I thought that meant they were doing something ...else. The vaccine passport, I get, i imagine the tech will be the same as people who walk into the airport and are immediately checked in by their smartphone?

Why is it fair to spread covid to a poorer country that can’t cope with it Why was it fair for the middle classes to go on their ski trips in Feb last year when it was already well known about.

This disease was brought into the UK by the more well off. And its poorer people who will be paying the price.

@AcornAutumn ah I see lol
yes in theory that is what is initially to be rolled out - like I say Red or Green 'covid' status
but the tech is there to increase influence/control over your status, if it was to be widened to other requirements.
if I was paying for a contract for this rollout, i'd want my moneys worth and to know it could be upscaled to suit when I wanted... :-)

It's extremely concerning and I have no idea why more people aren't questioning it. But the 7 richest billionaires are happy and even with a very modest share portfolio, with only a small percentage in pharma, I've done very well out of it (financially, not emotionally). So all this nonsense about 'but governments hate having to do this' is in my view just that: nonsense. It's like Brexit but worse: the very rich pretending to care about... [pick your target... Sovereignty, getting 'our country' back, saving countless lives from the terrible deadly virus]. All a load of meaningless bollocks spouted because they watch social media and follow the herd of morons who scream loudest like turkeys voting for Xmas. The rich get richer, the powerful gain more power, the plebs lose their freedom and demand to lose more while snitching in their neighbours. An absolute shower - both the government and much of the population.

[quote tiredofitall99]@AcornAutumn ah I see lol
yes in theory that is what is initially to be rolled out - like I say Red or Green 'covid' status
but the tech is there to increase influence/control over your status, if it was to be widened to other requirements.
if I was paying for a contract for this rollout, i'd want my moneys worth and to know it could be upscaled to suit when I wanted... :-)[/quote]
Yes, that's exactly what I thought this was

I was confused by the "digitalising the mnra vaccine".

A lot of people - esp on the vax passport thread - think that's all it is.

I don't know why people want their kids to grow up with this but they didn't care about Five Eyes, so 🤷🏻‍♀️

But at the end of the day, why? What’s in it for everyone to have to live that version of a potentially horrendous life?
Don’t they expect total anarchy? Why aren’t the other politicians in the parties strongly objecting to this, why aren’t some countries in the world taking a stand 🤷🏻‍♀️

MargaretThursday

So this could mean it is never over.

Why have we gone down the route of trying to control a virus.
I have always thought we should have left this virus to it’s own devices and taken some precautions and let it die out naturally and quickly.
What is the time scale on keeping vaccine passports as this could take many years

@RichardMarxisinnocent any vaccines (or any health status) can be added if they were mandatory for travel/do normal things, but the MRNA is the only one at the moment that its being forced and restrictions in life to be out in place. So that's why I say its the very start of a credit system. The passport isn't going to disappear, even if Covid were to appear to ...
way too much money to be made off it ..