People are going to start feeling a bit silly

[LemonSherbetFancies]

So many talking about how this is the great reset, how this doesn't stop until we say it does and how we are never coming out of lockdown etc.
Think they are going to feel a bit stupid over the coming weeks!

@tiredofitall99 totally agree. People don't know what is going on int he background. They are seeing the end product of IOT tech making their lives a little easier (not sure it really does) but don't understand the implications.

I work in the Big Data industry. I won't say what as it is probably enough to out me, but the implications of the vaccine passport and the facial recognition technology it will use, contracts with Palantir and other companies, changes to the way the NHS can share and acquire data under COPI and a million other things about what is happening make me very worried indeed. It could all be benign, it could all be sinister.

Alongside all the things you mention and we have something terrifying on our hands. Now I would have said one year ago that this was totally impossible with a Conservative Government headed by Boris Johnson. Straight after winning the leadership (so before COVID) they started making noises out of nowhere about mandatory vaccinations and it's all really snowballed from there.

@Mum2b43

So I’ve been laughing at conspiracy theorists the whole way through. I was wearing masks in shops in March last year, people openly laughed at me. I have obeyed every rule strictly. However I recently read that my age group under 44 has only a 0.04% chance of dying from covid if we catch it. I have friends and colleagues who have caught it, unhealthy, obese older people and they were ill but never hospitalised. I researched data of all the vaccines available and have decided not to get one. No thanks. I’m not anti-vaccine in any way but this one? I have a feeling in my gut that it will end badly for me personally. I won’t be getting it... in my democratic society I live in this should be my choice. However I feel like if I don’t have it I will have to give up my freedom and rights. No theatre, restaurants, pubs etc without a vaccine? The conspiracy theorists said these passports would become part of life a year ago, I scoffed, I laughed... I said ‘Never in the democratic UK’. I guess I was wrong... what else have they got right?

Thank you for admitting this. It helps. It confused the heck out of me ti be called a conspiracy theorist this time last year.

Half the things I had people linking me to, I'd never even heard of!

I tried to read The Fourth Industrial Revolution in 2018 but it was heavy going and alarming. I thought it was far fetched till late Feb 2020.

People under 65 who are healthy do not need this vaccine at all. Literally every single leading doctor and scientist who is not profiting from Covid is saying this. Now you need to possibly carry a passport to go clothes shopping? Never give up your rights. It is never temporary. They have lied and are lying to us. Why? I don’t know but as soon as they started copying the CCP model of control I knew it was sinister.

It’s not about being right wing V left wing anymore - the true battle is between the authoritarians (Boris, Whitty et al) V libertarians.

Now they have paused the AZ vaccine trial in children and are probably going to ban it for the under 30s. And we're called all the names under the sun for saying this was an experimental vaccine and they didn't know the long (or short, for that matter) side effects.

And still the government are telling people to go and get it anyway.

@tiredofitall99
I've heard of the social credit scheme they have in China, with this in mind and knowing what you know from your profession has it changed the way you use SM, cash etc?

@Nousernamesleftatall you know the healthies can transmit it to others right? so the unvaccinated/unlucky for whatever reason? that's why I will be accepting it when offered, astra zeneca included obv.

@Sadsiblingatsea yes, my very lefty DS and myself (Telegraph reader, boo hiss ) have found we are both at the heart of things libertarian before anything else

I still feel it’s such a con act of BJ to have posed as a libertarian for years, and then in power turns out to be authoritarian. Mind, I never trusted him. He never even pretend to care about anyone and he’s just about power and ego

@Sadsiblingatsea totally agree with you. It's astonishing how many conservative voters are posting on SM how deceived they feel and how they will never vote conservative again. The Lib Dems are getting some love, but they behaved badly over Brexit so they only like democracy when it's something they personally agree with.

@dividedwefall brexit voters had no real way of knowing what they were voting for to be fair. the promised £350m a week for the NHS etc.

@dividedwefall

Interesting take *@LemonSherbetFancies*.

On the day that Boris is due to announce the vaccine passport (that conspiracy theory again pah!) is to be trialled then probably rolled out to everyone, I do think you might be right!

It will all be over by next week when there are no cases, in spite of the Operation Moonshoot that will also be announced today which is ongoing for 2 years according to a recent posting about contracts.

I think people are really stupid too and this will all be over by next week like you.

Moonshoot????

@Stovetopespresso

As is your choice. The vaccine doesn’t stop you getting or transmitting Covid so what difference does it make if I take it or not. I don’t like the safety concerns that have been raised to the EMA and I certainly don’t like the coercion tactics for an experimental vaccine happening in a supposed democracy.

doctors4covidethics.medium.com/press-release-doctors-and-scientists-accuse-medical-regulator-of-downplaying-covid-19-vaccine-d2431d5abdab

@Nousernamesleftatall,

Not vaccinate the under 65s?! Seriously?

Have a look at this data:

www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathsandhospitalisationsbypreexistingconditionandage

And we don’t just vaccinate against deadly diseases but also those where you can get seriously ill. We even vaccinate using MMR for what would mainly be trivial childhood illnesses.

The data is all out there.

@Nousernamesleftatall
"the vaccine doesn’t stop you getting or transmitting Covid so what difference does it make if I take it or not"

it kinda does...

...the whole sitation is obviously far from ideal, the world is in an uncertain place, I get everyone's unease. I think some pps are counting their chickens, we're not there yet.
probably climate change is a threat to democracy as much as this. as is believing conspiracy theories originating from the far right or wherever.

@Littlefiendsusan
personally I can't stand cash, never have (I need to keep track of things and cash just goes poof!). but think its important we keep it in circulation :-(

A cashless society is perfect for those that want to hoover up data - especially if some even very loose form of social credit system is in place (its already started once they digitalise the MRNA injection evidence).

I thought it would be a lot longer to implement - but after last years 'ooh money is a super spreader' which its not, I just felt uncomfortable with how many things within this Pandemic were working in favour to some ..which makes you question so much more. Maybe it still will be a VERY long time before we are cashless, there's so much going on I could easily be overthinking it lol

regards SM I have to keep snoozing the general media (the manipulation and lies are too much) - and also those kinda friends on facebook that throw out memes joking about the microchip in the jab conspiracy, 'so now Bill Gates knows that Doris bought a loaf of bread' blah blah

so many things are purposely put out there as big jokes, so that when people who do have a little genuine knowledge say something that's loosely similar, they are demonised and ridiculed, and people don't listen to what the actual suggestion (or fact) was... because they've been pigeonholed into the 'conspiracy theorist' box... and then get slagged in Mumsnet ! lol

I said healthy under 65. The biggest risk factor for hospitalisation after age is obesity. If you are a normal weight and reasonably healthy, Covid is less a risk to you than flu.

Up to 80% of Covid positives have mild or no symptoms.

@Nousernamesleftatall,

I note the date on the doctorsforcovidethics is Jan 1st, an apposite date. It also reads strangely if written by immunologists, talking about ‘experimental genetic vaccines’, when the AZ vaccine is an old fashioned vaccine.

It is also 100 doctors versus the many tens of thousands of doctors who believe in the vaccination programme.

The vaccine definitely both stops you getting and transmitting COVID. There is ample evidence for this now. In addition, why do you think our cases are staying low as we open up?

This vaccine denial is the conspiracy, not governments listening to qualified scientific advisors. Trying to put people off having life saving vaccines is grossly irresponsible.

I have had my vaccination but completely support people's right to choose not to. I heard on the radio someone saying the covid passport idea will encourage more people to vaccinate.
Which as any good MN'er will know it's not encouragement but coercion. When you can't access certain parts of a society without making a particular choice it isn't a few society anymore it's one where government policy dictates the direction of your life or you feel the penalty.
It seems to me that is not at all desirable. If the illness is that serious and the vaccine is that good you don't need to do that, you just need to have transparency of the facts and the vast majority will want it, so I think it is ideologically driven as a route to exerting greater social control by those who believe that to be desirable. Not once have I heard on the discussion of the 'passports' any mention of a exit criteria from their necessary use. It will just morph into another function and we won't be able to get rid of it if we want to.

@RealisticSketch - at the moment they're saying either proof of vax or negative test. but covid is a huge challenge to many of our old ways yes.

its already started once they digitalise the MRNA injection evidence.

What do you mean by this please?

@dividedwefall yep, all very true.. there are aspects that I think ooh, that could be cool n helpful - but as you say its whats in the background.
massive areas of a particular country I look after seem to morphing into one huge bloody data center! I'm sure people just assume its to help google searches come through a bit faster lol

@RichardMarxisinnocent

its already started once they digitalise the MRNA injection evidence.

What do you mean by this please?

I'm wondering this too

(And trying not to sing)

I'm not a Conservative (but couldn't vote for JC) and I didn't want Brexit but I do think Boris Johnson and his government have done extremely well under the circumstances. Most vulnerable groups have been vaccinated, which wouldn't have happened if we we still in the EU. It's easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight but whoever was in power would have made mistakes.

@JMR185

I'm not a Conservative (but couldn't vote for JC) and I didn't want Brexit but I do think Boris Johnson and his government have done extremely well under the circumstances. Most vulnerable groups have been vaccinated, which wouldn't have happened if we we still in the EU. It's easy to criticise with the benefit of hindsight but whoever was in power would have made mistakes.

Think you've got your initials mixed up there Jacob

That's true. At the moment. I'm not seeing ghouls where there are none but as I watch things unfold I have a cynical eye while hoping it's all benign good intentions from above only. There are a few governments who have used this pandemic opportunistically to push through legislation they wanted for ideological reasons and nothing to do with the greater good, but which would have met too much resistance at any other time. Such as in Hungary:
www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/hungary

I realise we aren't Hungary, but it is an example of how pandemics can be convenient for other agendas and people should be applauded for not wanting to see their society become a place where dictats from above rules supreme. We only enjoy the civil rights we have because people gone before cared enough, when they're gone it's a lot harder to bring them back.