Under 50s being vaccinated now

[musicalfrog]

In our area, my OH is going for his AZ tomorrow and I'm ecstatic as he's the last of our immediate family to receive a vaccine. Well done NHS! Thought we'd be waiting till May!

I don't think (hope) anyone begrudges anyone getting the vaccine and I hope as many people as possible take up the offer as it benefits us all.

I realise why the situation can't be perfect. It doesn't stop it being frustrating for those less fortunate in the postcode lottery.

I agree with whoever said in a years time no one will care who got it a few weeks sooner, the exception of course being those that catch a complicated case of Covid in the mean time. And that's where the frustration and worry comes from.

I'm just having a wee anonymous vent.

49, high blood pressure, asthma, two hospitalisations with pneumonia. I work in a school and desperately want my vaccine but no signs yet.

It’s hardly left over vaccine if they are being asked to book. The short date vaccine expires this week.

Just a greedy GP unwilling to allow the vaccines to be used for priority groups.

I just turned 40 in november and had mine at my GP surgery last saturday.

@LemonTT

It’s hardly left over vaccine if they are being asked to book. The short date vaccine expires this week.

Just a greedy GP unwilling to allow the vaccines to be used for priority groups.

Aren't GPs paid per jab too? I don't know if this influences the distribution.

I might add my GP does not offer vaccines. The neighbouring surgery (which I was unable to register with when we moved here 4 years ago) does.
My GP does not have a resident female GP either, just a locum two days a week, so I'm really hoping to change surgeries if I can. This has highlighted that my small local surgery isn't the way moving forward if it doesn't offer vaccines on site.

DH and I each 41. I had mine on 21 March and he had his on 05 March. No health issues. SE London in a borough that seems to be ahead of the curve.

I'm 60 in 5 mths. I'll be getting mine next week. I'm annoyed at this, not because I feel younger folk (without extra vulnerability) are jumping ahead in the queue but because statistically I'm more at risk of serious illness than they are @WombatChocolate

I am 49, have asthma and live in South Birmingham. Had a text from my GP yesterday and am booked for my vaccine next weekend.

It has been a long wait and hard to cope with so many younger, healthier, less at risk people being vaccinated ahead of me (I am a teaching assistant in a secondary school).

This postcode lottery is really wrong. Everyone whose daily life means that they have to come into contact with others who cannot or will not socially distance or follow hands, face, space, ventilate should have been prioritised for the vaccine once the first 9 groups were completed at the very least. It it was possible for this to be offered to unpaid carers I don't understand why it couldn't be offered to these workers.

We (school staff, emergency services, shop workers, delivery/taxi/bus drivers etc) have lived with a higher level or risk for a very long time and seeing the inconsistencies that are happening in the vaccine rollout now is hard to bear.

MM1551, just out of interest, roughly where in the country are you? I know Scotland, Wales and Ireland have run to different timescales.

As far as I recall , upper 50s could book on the national booking site about 3 weeks ago. How long ago did you book? Was that via GP invite (usually later than national booking allows) or on the national system? Did you wait for a letter (usually a week after eligibility opens on website) or book as soon as the age group could? I know some people booked and were booking for 2 weeks ahead.

There is a difference between eligible offered and actually jabbed. Clearly there is a lag between the 2. For some people, they book the day their age cohort opens up and take the first available slot and travel some distance. Others in the same age cohort aren’t even looking at the website to book for another week or 2 weeks or until the GP follows them up a further week later or for another week and so on. There are still 80s and 70s and 60s not jabbed. Some have only just booked but not responded to being eligible sooner. Others in all groups still haven’t booked and will be chased up multiple time’s before they do book or never do.

Any one age group will always be done over a period of time. Some areas move faster. It is not a linear process across the whole country although moving broadly in cohorts.

Yes, someone who is 59 is greater statistical risk than someone 45, all other things being equal. That’s why broadly speaking the vast majority of 59 year olds have now been jabbed and large nos of 45s haven’t. However, to not move on anywhere to the 55+ or the 50+ or then 45+ because some 59s haven’t had it yet just doesn’t make sense. Mop up of those who haven’t yet had it for whatever reason from ALL previous groups needs to continue along with roll out to new groups. It’s about reaching the most vulnerable AND moving through the population and both are needed together and not one at exclusion of other.

@WombatChocolate I'm in Scotland and we don't have a booking site we just have to wait for an appointment so in my case it's not a matter of being mopped up unfortunately. I would have willingly traveled somewhere else that was further ahead for it earlier, if that had been allowed!

But the website isn't open to under 50s to book WombatChocolate
I'm glad not to be the only 49 year old waiting. It feels like we're very much nearly at risk as the 50 year olds who are a few months older, but we now have no way to access the vaccine and we don't know when we will have

As a teacher seeing often 100 students a day in a small room, I thought carefully about the age prioritisation against occupational prioritisation.

In the end I decided the age order was best even though I’d lose out that way. Why? Because there are lots of occupations where people are at risk from public contact....supermarket workers, police, factory workers, teachers....and lots of other occupations will have an equally valid claim. I just think the numbers become so vast and crucially it’s unwieldy in a practical sense and the importance of managing it from a practical perspective is key when you’re rolling out to millions.

GPs don’t know peoples occupations. Establishing the eligible occupations in itself to be genuinely fair would be pretty impossible. We’ve all heard if teachers but there are lots of jobs where people are at risk more that we haven’t heard of and might be missed out. That then isn’t fair is it. Even if you could identify the risky jobs in an way everyone agreed with (never going to happen) then it would have to be evidenced and systemised. In itself that is logistically very very difficult. Notice the unpaid Carer criteria has been pulled from the National Booking system now because it was open to abuse. (They now have to go via GP bookings which will be more rigorous). Because of the difficulties in indentifying the right jobs and then logistically managing the booking system, the vaccination process would be slowed. And we have to balance speed of coverage over risk. As we move down the age groups where risk is lower, speed of coverage wins out. Applying strict criteria to do with occupation or other criteria, rather than simply applied age groups, might mean some at risk groups get done sooner (arbitrary though about if more risky for some occupations) but many people are done later because of the slower processes to cover people. And in itself, taking longer to do everyone is the bigger risk. Covid remains at large in a bigger unvaccinated population for longer, allowing mutations to occur and disease to spread. It’s why we moved to 12 week intervals....so ensure more people had a first jab as soon as possible. This would save more lives than giving the very vulnerable 2 jabs sooner. And likewise, getting through large swathes of the population faster, rather than stopping to mop up people who didn’t get jabbed, or whose area has got a bit behind, delivers better results.

The plans are made at the macro level to deliver the best big picture results for society as a whole. Some individuals might get their jab out of sync and order as a result of the broad brush approach which has to be used. And yes, that might mean that a small number of people get Covid badly in younger age groups, or an even smaller number die who would have been saved from the illness or death if their vaccine had come earlier due to occupational vaccine or a very strictly applied age policy for vaccine where it couldn’t move into next age group until ALL of one were done. BUT the consequences of this would also have been a slower vaccine programme and more serious illness and death as a result. And that’s what they’ve had to balance. It’s the big picture stuff not just if it feels fair to Mary in Town X who is 53 and waiting whilst knowing Bob in Town B has already had it as 44.

@ChloeDecker A proper process for the ‘leftovers’ and ‘no shows’ should have been implemented (like Israel) instead of this postcode lottery and fraud causing such disparity and lack of fairness.

The entire NHS is a postcode lottery due to fragmentation and lack of consistency in management.

It's quite galling to keep hearing that all over 50's have been vaccinated now. Maybe I should just pretend to myself that I'm actually younger than I am

@pawsbaws

I"m late 40s and will put £10 on me not getting the blue envelope until May at the earliest... in Scotland you see.

Me too. I'm 49 within in the next couple of months, live in Scotland.

MM1551, I can see how frustrating it is to be in Scotland and not have the national booking system and going at a different pace.

Daisies, I fully sympathise with your feelings too as a late 40s myself. 2 weeks ago, I was sure the vaccine was about to be opened to upper 40s and my DH and I would have been done by the end of the month. And then the delay announcement saying a lull in first jabs and no new bookings for April or rollout to under 50s. I was devastated. And it was hard to hear of wreaks where they clearly were still giving it to under 50s but not here. And yes, perhaps we won’t hear anything more until May. It is so disappointing. I fully agree. They didn’t feel entirely honest about it with all the bluff about ‘no weeks without first jabs in April’ etc...well yes, but that will be mostly mopping up if it can’t be 40s.

I’m frustrated for myself and family but trying to understand why it happens. I don’t believe there is a deliberate attack on 40s or desire to leave people out or vulnerable and the eye is always in the big picture and reducing hospitalisations and deaths overall. Hard decisions are made to achieve that.

If vaccine is limited, I think we agree 2nd doses must happen first. The real question remains how much is there still available for 1st doses? At what point do you everyone over 50 has been eligible to book now for a decent period of time and the vulnerable and under-represented groups have been approached enough to say they really have been given a good chance, so now is the time to open to the next cohort? Usually they were mopping up AND expanding to the next cohort, but it’s different now, or at least officially. For now they seem to want just mopping up and no further rollout. Is that because the supplies for 1st does are about to plummet to such low levels that it really isn’t worth asking upper 40s to book as there just won’t be hardly any available? That’s the only reason I can see. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense not to invite at least 48s and 49s alongside the mop up that’s happening. Or is it about diverting supply to Scotland which is behind England? Could be that but they don’t want to say. We aren’t hearing the full story.

Hopefully the delay really won’t be long at all and even in the next days upper 40s will be able to start booking, which will also give hope to younger groups that things are starting to book. If they don’t open it up, sites which have vaccine and no mop up people to jab are forced to just find people to jab. Fine for the odd soars to go to almost anyone, but I agree that if it’s large quantities it really should be by age group and it’s hard to tell how widespread the delivery to random age groups actually is.

I agree WombatChocolate One of the main problems for me has just been the lack of transparency about what's coming next, since they've just skirted around the issue and haven't explicitly told the next age groups what is happening or what to expect

In the end I decided the age order was best even though I’d lose out that way. Why? Because there are lots of occupations where people are at risk from public contact....supermarket workers, police, factory workers, teachers....and lots of other occupations will have an equally valid claim.

I agreed with this (even though I was disappointed teachers were not considered, I did understand) until I saw the list for those eligible for the social care route and it was like a metaphorical slap in the face. If I was a lollipop lady, or life coach, or art therapist etc. I could have had the first phase, even if not currently working.

I agreed until I heard and read that many were getting called up who were not ‘eligible’ in the list and also not factory workers or supermarket workers etc.

I agreed until I heard people were getting it through fraud/lying.

I agreed until I realised that I’d have to wait longer because of no shows and people not wanting the vaccine.

I agreed until the news said there would be a delay/hold on vaccine deliveries and I think that was just one disappointment too many.

You are definitely a better person than me WombatChocolate and your outlook and view is definitely more peaceful and easier to deal with than mine and I don’t like feeling this jealous. I think it would have been easier to wait much longer if it was genuinely down to not such an odd list for a social care criteria to begin with (and was properly checked) and was genuinely down to going through the correct ages as promised/directed.

Chloe, I understand all the pints you mention. I’ve thought them too.

I guess that in seeing the bigger picture (or trying to) I accept and understand that there will be some errors along the way and that broad rush approaches designed for speed have some ‘casualties’ within them and also some, if you like ‘undeserved winners’ and that some of that is just the consequences of the gains of the broad rush speedy approach.

Some of those occupations you mention, I’d call ‘undeserved winners’ - they were in a list and perhaps didn’t need to be, but the. I’m not sure I’m the best judge if that and leave that to those who have more info.

Perhaps if they were drawing up those lists again in less haste, not all of those on there would be.

The fraud and lying about being unpaid carers was really upsetting. That loophole has now been closed....carers who are not identified on the system already have to go via GPS and not national booking system now. Fraud might still be possible but much less likely or easy.

The no shows and those not wanting the jab is a tricky balancing act. On one level, mop-up and multiple follow-up of those not accepting their invite is needed to get to herd immunity and also to target vulnerable groups in more deprived communities who are at greater risk of Covid. The gov is very aware that Covid is fast becoming a disease if poverty and will be so if the jab isn’t rolled out across society and working hard to address that. To a point t it’s absolutely right and I think mop up will be going on long after everyone has been offered a first jab. The Q is how long mop-up can or should hold up roll-out to the next cohort. Previous mop-ups happened alongside rollout and not instead of. My suspicion is the mop up is just being used as an excuse for not rolling out further. The supplies available for 1st doses are going to be very small very soon. If the focus is said to be on a group who are mostly already done, they can still say progress is being made. We are close to the 32m needed for 2 weeks time already. We can do do treading water and still hit it. And actually off the record they are still doing limited rollout to 40s as we keep hearing...but so frustrating for those not getting it because it feels dishonest and unfair and lacking transparency. Is the jab for 40s on and encouraged or off and not? The message is unclear and inconsistently applied and that’s not fair but the reality isn’t acknowledged. I totally understand and feel that frustration at the lack of honesty over the last couple of weeks about 40s.

If they were honest, the lack of supply and delay would feel palatable. ...disappointing but fair and palatable. Not rolling out to occupations feels right to me. Giving 2nd jabs priority seems fair to me. Devoting decent chunks of resources to mop up if earlier groups seems fair to me. Being clearer with 40s about what’s happening would be better, but I think they just can’t be honest. It would mean admitting they raised 40s hopes unofficially and then dashed them. They do t need to admit this as official timelines of mid Feb, mid April and end July are still in track. And they know the rollout to 40s is continuing in some areas unofficially. The official paperwork tells GPs and so on not to do it (in bold letters in the letter of this week from NHS ENgland) but seemingly KNOWS they are and will deliver whatever they have. But doing this on the sly and off the record means rules of engagement and delivery of vacccine get lost and it’s a free for all. Most with some stock and no over 50s are trying to give it to upper 40s. Some seem to decide to give it to all in a vulnerable occupation regardless of age. It’s quite random which is upsetting for uppper 40s in areas where nothing seems to be happening or for those in vulnerable occupations who haven’t seems to have priority. It shows why transparency and a policy which relflects what’s happening on the ground rather than pretending somethings happening which isn’t or vice versa is better.

I’m as frustrated as you I think, just trying to see the bigger picture too and to understand why a good system has come to this rather daft stage. Hopefully order will resume soon and it won’t be a random fee for all for all under 50s or at least if it is, they come clean on th approach being used.

I’m so glad I posted on this thread because it has been so helpful to read your posts Wombat. thank you

My GP has changed the status from 47-49 year olds to over 50's. Bum.

47y dh had his jab today. No health issues, etc.

He initially called a nearby vaccination hub as was given the number by friends who had been told they were accepting over 40s. He called and they are doing them using vaccines that need using so not loads of appointments - though he was offered one for Wednesday, unfortunately it was the only day next week we can't do. He was told to phone 2-3 times a week to ask.

By chance we were passing our local hub and asked at the door about end of day 'spares' and they wrote his name and number done. Couple of hours later they called him to see if he could get there before they closed 30 minutes later. So he turned round and heading back. Had first Pfizer jab this afternoon.

I'd already had mine as I'm in group 6.

In 4 months time, none of us will be saying ‘I had to wait an extra 3 weeks than my 36 year old colleague even though I’m 10 years older’ even though it feels so important now.

I'm sure this will be the case UNLESS you're really unlucky and catch covid (and get very ill) between now and getting your first vaccine. I think if that happened to me I couldn't help wondering why I hadn't been as lucky as friends born the same year who've had theirs weeks ago.

For some of us it may also have an impact on the whole vaccine passport situation especially for international travel - depends what happens with that and travel in general of course but if you get your first jab May/June then 12 weeks from that is a long way ahead.

Had mine yesterday, I'm 42. All over 40s in our area seemed to get the text invitation on Monday last week. Dh got his yesterday too. We're in Derby city. The mass vaccination centre is doing really well and is a credit to the NHS. I think Derby are just ahead of national trends. Fully expected to be waiting till May with the supply issues that have been reported.