Vaccine passports and mask exemptions

[salmonskinjerky]

The language around the vaccine passport debate has been really shocking - dehumanising, completely unnuanced and very dangerous indeed. It seems like the majority of posters on MN would support vaccine passports for everyday activities and the posters who admit to not being keen on getting the vaccine are called selfish, a danger to others and told that they ought to live as hermits.

I remember when there were a lot of threads about mask exemptions and the overall consensus was that people who felt unable to wear masks for various reasons should be allowed to go about their business without challenge, despite the fact that they posed an additional risk to the health of the people around them. This is in spite of the fact that an unmasked person posed more of a risk to others in the time before anyone had the protection of a vaccine than an unvaccinated person would pose to a person who had been vaccinated. The view that many held was that a mask exempt person should not be questioned about their reasons for not wearing a mask. And that it would be discriminatory to not allow them into indoor public spaces.

I would like to hear from people who make a distinction between people who are mask exempt and people who are unvaccinated for various reasons and why the two should be treated differently.

@masterofthechef

they tested the public's reaction to enforced medical interventions when they changed the organ donor register to Compulsory and sweetened it with an opt-out option. No real reaction against the change that now means your body is state property. Similar if people are to be excluded from private business establishments, then they won't be spending money with them via other avenues, and if excluded from other public amenities and treated as 2nd class citizens then there should also be a reduction in their contribution to the state coffers

Agree.

I can't believe what is going on here now. Are the gov really going to be bringing in domestic vaccine passports for everything apart from supermarkets and medical care? So, a lockdown by another name? What is the point in living? I can't do this anymore!

I don't recall being put on a Community Treatment Order for Covid. FFS... this is terrifying.

yes @AcornAutumn , I think that post was meant for another thread. My point is now the supposedly vulnerable have been vaccinated why they continuing on with this obsessive pushing of the vaccine without full disclosure

@Heathermary1995

You may have a point regarding the higher risks to the vulnerable but as they have now been vaccinated not maintaining full disclosure to younger people is disgusting.

Thankfully not all us vulnerable have been vaccinated. And some of our health teams have been advising we wait. Not giving us full disclosure is disgusting regardless of age. My team are reluctant as it hasn't been tested on all pre-existing health conditions and that as the trials progress more health groups and medication interaction will be done. As well as health I am on several meds that have no contra info.

@reformedcharacters

Quit4me

I’ve spent the last couple of months getting abuse on here from people calling for this. I’m furious, they should be ashamed.

The government are citing ‘dodgy’ polls as support but I would honestly say far more are against.

Me too. I was one of the voices on the 'Covornavirus and Human Rights' epic thread and there were a lot of posters on that thread that challenged me about my view that we were slipping into unchecked tyranny a la the Soviet Union. I would like them to come back now and admit they were wrong.

*coronavirus.

This will be an even worse Summer than last year for me. Last Summer I was able to give over my details and have a couple of meal out, now without a vaccine passport I will be denied doing that even though vaccines have been given to the most vulnerable.

Me and dp are both 37 so not due our jabs yet. I was very happy to be at the latter end of the queue as my risk is low but now I'm regretting not trying to get one as a carer. I'm not a carer but the lie would have given me my freedom back. It is a selfish view but I can't help it.

My DD has her education affected, we don't go out apart from to school and DP to work. We walk to school and back so get exercise so at least there is that. We don't have a garden so no nice days sitting in the sun to make up for this.

I have money to spend. Summer 2019 we visited 3 zoos, 3 theme parks and had numerous trips out to eat lunch and dinner and to the cinema. We won't be doing that this year now. Families are big spenders. Will hospitality cope without their money?

I want to fight this but how?

Many business owners have been vocal that the passport is unworkable. Some even mentioned discrimination against various groups because they aren't/cannot be vaccinated.

It's also easier for those who have had the vaccine to proof they have had it for it to appear on the passport.
What about us that have already had it? Who is going to pay for those tests? Never mind the money shelled out on this.

I don't think it is unworkable

It would use the same tech as a phone checking you in at the airport

Govt will use our money to put that tech everywhere and probably issue free smartphones to those who don't have them.

Yes last summer was not too bad. I went to a hotel for a few days and whilst it was a pain in some ways there were no masks. This was in August!

Businesses won't survive this though. The vast majority of small businesses need every customer they can get, and to minimise the cost of each sale. These ideas from government increase the costs of doing business whilst reducing the customer base. The big ones that can afford it will be left standing as usual.

@HSHorror

Op loads of reports of period issues after covid too though.

And in fact they think covid has put some people into premature menopause. (And has given periods to some who were past menopause.
Working on the basis those ttc as young and not shielding have very high chance of catching covid. Especially if they have kids at school.
Plus obviously the risks being CV from 28w.
Also fever in pregnancy isnt great (though probably likely nornally anyway).
Known risk to mum and baby vs possibly??? Infertility.

I dont know re the exemptions for people with previous issues.
Obviously yes for anyone allergic who is likely to have a reaction.
With those worried though i wouldnt exempt. (My dc is very needle averse and health care after an incident at 5yo. But unfortunately that just means i will be holding them down for the vax.

But i do think there is discussion around childrens vax. Not really the safery but
Effectiveness of say AZ not being as high. So what if giving another vax later doesnt boost it. As they found half dose better possibly.
And likelihood of vaxs yearly. Of maybe different types.
Whilst a vax side effect of say 1/300k would be low if you have it ecery year more chance of an issue eventually unless it is maybe underlying issues causing it in which case if you dont react the first time it might be ok??

At the moment few kids have died but less than 50% will have had covid. And likewise the unvaxxed would catch it every 6m maybe. With msybe days off each time...

The fact you say will hold your five year old child down and force a vaccine in his arm is truly horrendous! My heart sunk when I read that, your poor child

Came in to post about differences / similarities of vaccination and mask wearing but see the thread has moved on!

I don't really know the argument for or against vaccine passports, but what do you think is the government's motivation behind the idea - presumably they would say public health, preventing further hot spots etc. Do you believe that but think it's a dumb reason, or do you think there is another reason, and if so, what?

Back door to the ID card?

You are right. It’s a way to implement ID cards (which will cost us annually) under the guise of “keeping you safe” given how unpopular the idea was when it was last floated by a government.

And how successful have all the other apps been that have been thrust upon us?
How many of us bothered with the app for tracking?

How many of us want facial recognition? Isn't that also being pushed through?

@Crocidura

Came in to post about differences / similarities of vaccination and mask wearing but see the thread has moved on!

I don't really know the argument for or against vaccine passports, but what do you think is the government's motivation behind the idea - presumably they would say public health, preventing further hot spots etc. Do you believe that but think it's a dumb reason, or do you think there is another reason, and if so, what?

The vaccine is not mandatory, so having to provide proof you have had it to access anything beyond the supermarket or hospital makes no sense to me.

The ID card act was a Labour bit of legislation though - the tories / coalition repealed it as soon as they got in. BJ is famously libertarian, why would he abandon that to resurrect a Labour idea?

@Canigooutyet

How many of us want facial recognition? Isn't that also being pushed through?

It's been in London for ages, sadly

Here is a job I could actually apply for. No, I'm not going to!

A very good day rate for encouraging asymptomatic testing. I think the summer will be about a test to get anywhere, or vax passport.

findajob.dwp.gov.uk/details/5585948

@Crocidura

The ID card act was a Labour bit of legislation though - the tories / coalition repealed it as soon as they got in. BJ is famously libertarian, why would he abandon that to resurrect a Labour idea?

I didn't know this was a thing!

The vaccine is not mandatory, so having to provide proof you have had it to access anything beyond the supermarket or hospital makes no sense to me.

This does seem weird. So (forgive my ignorance) are they planning on forcing businesses to adopt this, so everyone will have to have passports checked and the onus is on the business to do the checking, a bit like U18s in pubs?

Croc
For money

£750 a day? Wow.

We could email our MPs and Charles Walker with that job ad. Not so they apply for the day rate 😂

@Nappyvalley15

Croc For money

What do you mean? Who is making the money?