EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

Like I said before the IL don’t make enough vaccines to supply Europe too make that much of a difference. The EU aren’t ordering from AZ in the future now anyway so it makes no difference. The supply for the vaccines they order will come from USA, India and Europe

The UK I meant

@jasjas1973

Why are you measuring wealth "per capita"? Monaco, Liechtenstein, and Luxembourg are the top three countries in the world for GDP per capita but you can't seriously argue that they are major players on the "world stage"

err... because i didn't.

Per capita is a perfectly normal way of measuring a countries "wealth" or in the case of CV, its infection/death rates.

The UK has some appalling inequality, one (of many reasons) we suffered such a terrible death rate, the fact that 1% of the population have such huge wealth is of little consolation.

You are talking about global influence, and the ability of the UK to influence the foreign policies of other nations. Therefore, it is the total wealth that matters, not the individual wealth of the citizens. Vladimir Putin neither knows, nor cares how much inequality there is in the UK. What he does care about is how many aircraft carriers/Trident missiles we can afford. Putin listens (sometimes) to the countries with the largest economies, not the ones where people are individually wealthy.

@EasterIssland

La stampa is reporting that the EU won't renew their contracts with AZ nor j&j and will focus on arnm vaccines( I also read that EU has got a new deal for 1800m of doses and that for these pfizer has increased 60% the price)

True but the EU paid £10.60 for their original doses (the UK £15) so the 60% price rise puts the new EU order similar to the UK's ?

Good to see that the EU is getting on with these new orders.

I have realised that you argue with straw men jasjas.

So I'll say oh I think the UK will be ok because x, y, z (eg. strong currency, good finance industry and some other niche markets) and you'll respond as if I said that the UK was the biggest, strongest, greatest country and is going to rule the world.

I have no desire to rule the world and I'm not saying anything about being the biggest or the best. I'm talking about being ok and getting by as a small nation but you pretend I'm, as you said, stuck in the time of the empire and grandiouse.

It's been bugging me but it popped into my head whilst teaching this morning that it is classic strawman bollocks (with the usual accompanying what about-ism eg. the latest is massive inequality which is actually what aboutism and ignoring the fact that's a pretty global issue that all countries need to tackle). You're mostly arguing with what you say I said rather than what I actually said.

Denmark have stopped using AZ permanently

Denmark to stop use of AstraZeneca vaccine permanently

Denmark will permanently cease to administer AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine, broadcaster TV 2 reported on Wednesday, citing unnamed sources.

The move will delay Denmark’s vaccination roll-out by a few weeks, TV 2 said.

The Copenhagen Post reports:

Without the J&J and AstraZeneca jabs, experts warn that Denmark’s vaccination program might not be completed before the end of the year.

J&J accounted for 8.2 million of Denmark’s vaccinations. Even better, only one jab is necessary to vaccinate. On its own, it could have covered the whole country … and Latvia. Its withdrawal was unthinkable.

But its departure leaves Denmark with only Pfizer and Moderna in its arsenal.

“We can get to the finish line with Pfizer and Moderna,” Professor Jan Pravsgaard Christensen from the Department of Immunology and Microbiology at the University of Copenhagen told DR.

“But then I think we will not be completely vaccinated until the end of 2021.”

India has done 112 million vaccinations compared to 40 million in the U.K.

The help we could potentially provide would make no difference at this stage

@Baileysforchristmas

Denmark have stopped using AZ permanently

Denmark to stop use of AstraZeneca vaccine permanently

Denmark will permanently cease to administer AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine, broadcaster TV 2 reported on Wednesday, citing unnamed sources.

The move will delay Denmark’s vaccination roll-out by a few weeks, TV 2 said.

The Copenhagen Post reports:

Without the J&J and AstraZeneca jabs, experts warn that Denmark’s vaccination program might not be completed before the end of the year.

J&J accounted for 8.2 million of Denmark’s vaccinations. Even better, only one jab is necessary to vaccinate. On its own, it could have covered the whole country … and Latvia. Its withdrawal was unthinkable.

But its departure leaves Denmark with only Pfizer and Moderna in its arsenal.

“We can get to the finish line with Pfizer and Moderna,” Professor Jan Pravsgaard Christensen from the Department of Immunology and Microbiology at the University of Copenhagen told DR.

“But then I think we will not be completely vaccinated until the end of 2021.”

It's been announced officially now as well (although TV2's "sources" seem to be accurate every time!)

At 14:00 UK time the press conference resumes and I guess we'll hear something about J&J. However, they've already adjusted the official vaccination calendar to remove AZ and still have J&J included, so no idea...

The vaccine calendar has shifted back by three weeks as a result of dropping AZ.

The Pfizer and Moderna orders come to 7.6m complete vaccinations, so I guess the issue is when they arrive. Pfizer are delivering just over 200k vaccines a month at the moment.

200k a week, sorry, not a month!

I assume janson won't deliver to UK also if halting Europe.
I don't understand why it won't slow down UK vaccines either.
Front of I newspaper today seemed to indicate we still on course to do all adults by end of July

Which doesn't make sense if az can't be used under 40s and we short on that.
We haven't ordered that much pfizer.
We only received 500k of 17million moderna order.
Europe stopped az being shipped from Netherlands.
India still have 5million az outstanding.
I think norovax must be pretty soon .

Novovax should be approved in a few weeks.

Uk is under 30, I guess the UK government are hoping Noravax will be available by the time their time comes round, hopefully we make just enough AZ in the UK to vaccinate everyone else, Pfizer orders are still coming from the EU, they haven’t been stopped.

@3asAbird

I assume janson won't deliver to UK also if halting Europe. I don't understand why it won't slow down UK vaccines either. Front of I newspaper today seemed to indicate we still on course to do all adults by end of July Which doesn't make sense if az can't be used under 40s and we short on that. We haven't ordered that much pfizer. We only received 500k of 17million moderna order. Europe stopped az being shipped from Netherlands. India still have 5million az outstanding. I think norovax must be pretty soon .

@3asAbird j&j is not even approved atm in the uk

@TheHoneyBadger

Maybe re read what you post?

I think despite being a big player internationally uk was always seen as not very eu.....

and then....

I think the UK is not representative of most EU nations in that it does have that strong global finance position and a strong currency

I pulled you up on that... you have now responded with a load of stuff i never said or implied

No where did you say the UK is a small nation but will be ok...... as i have shown, the exact opposite, its not a strawman at all.

Pointing out that (one reason) the UK had such a terrible death rate is inequality, even acknowledged by SAGE, isn't whataboutism, its a fact, just as our fantastic vaccination program is too and will contribute to the UK coming out of LD ahead of most of europe... new variants accepted.

Maybe your not used to having your pov challenged?

It is a big player internationally - it's a piddly little nation yet as someone posted above has the fifth biggest gdp in the world. To say it's a big player doesn't at all say I think it's the biggest or the best or that I think we're in the empire as you accused. And actually I said the UK was in a different position to most of the smaller nations in the EU as many of them have smaller economies and not much that they trade or are relied upon for globally and many of them were net beneficiaries so I could see them leaving the EU even if it came to the point of lots of their citizens wanting to because: pragmatics.

Things have context that they fit in. You can't pick out a few words and say you said this and ignore the context.

How many countries are there globally? We're in the top 5 gdp ergo yes we do have some global presence and voice considering we're a tiny nation. Why would you argue with that or see it as being stuck in the empire era? I even compared to an example country such as Bulgaria.

I don't believe you are that dim so to me it's deliberate strawman stuff - I could be wrong and it could be the former.

could not see them leaving

You're not challenging my pov but your own projections.

What a hypocrite Macron is

France to administer J&J Covid-19 vaccine as planned

France will use Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine as planned despite its suspension in the US, a government spokesman said, adding France had received a first shipment of 200,000 doses.

“The doses, which arrived earlier this week, are being shipped to city general practitioners and to chemists,” government spokesman Gabriel Attal told reporters.

France expects to receive 600,000 doses of the J&J vaccine by the end of the month, according to health ministry data.

After what critics depicted as a slow start, authorities are aiming to speed up France’s vaccination drive with the target of 30 million people having received at leat one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine by mid-June.

US federal health agencies on Tuesday recommended pausing the use of the J&J shot after six women under the age of 50 developed rare blood clots after receiving it. J&J also said it would delay rollout of the vaccine to Europe.

The halt follows restrictions imposed by many European countries on using an alternative vaccine from AstraZeneca, in response to similar reports of rare blood clotting among a very small number of recipients.

@Baileysforchristmas

Yes that seems very odd, have the french specified an age range?

Will france even get any Jansen vaccine? as JJ have said they will delay the rollout in europe.

Apparently most countries are going to use their already delivered J&J with the exception of Belgium and Netherlands are going to pause their J&J rollout for time being. France, who received 200,000 J&J this week, are going to use on 60+ age group. Not sure if other countries are going to apply an age restriction.

@jasjas1973 Spain got their jj today. They were expecting them yesterday. Spain was waiting for emas comment which have arrived now. So I take France has already received theirs as well

Hypocritical how? It will be given to 55yrs + as per AZ according to le Monde.

Just reading that Germany are saying all those under 60 who had a first dose of AZ will get a different vaccine for their second dose. This strikes me as a bit 'out there' and experimental. Last I had heard there was very little data available to confirm mixing of vaccines is successful and safe to do. Assuming you had the AZ first dose and weren't in the teeny tiny % of people who suffered a clot issue then surely a second dose of AZ is going to be safer at this moment in time than mixing two different vaccines.

@usuallydormant because Macron said AZ was quazzi ineffective on over 65’s without any medical data to back this up, and then said only for use in under 55’s even though the EMA said carry on using it, and now without EMA’s approval he’s still going to use J&J even though the USA have suspended it!

@StormzyinaTCup I agree even more risky without medical information to back it up, such confusing information from Germany

@StormzyinaTCup

Just reading that Germany are saying all those under 60 who had a first dose of AZ will get a different vaccine for their second dose. This strikes me as a bit 'out there' and experimental. Last I had heard there was very little data available to confirm mixing of vaccines is successful and safe to do. Assuming you had the AZ first dose and weren't in the teeny tiny % of people who suffered a clot issue then surely a second dose of AZ is going to be safer at this moment in time than mixing two different vaccines.

It was in the British news that the uk want to expand the mix & match study ans are asking for more volunteers. I thought ... well they have a few in Germany and France www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56730526

Spain hasn’t made their mind up yet whether to go the German way or Italian (2az doses). So far they’ve suggested 1 dose only , now they’re saying German way. However , Spanish scientists are asking for 2 doses of az so I hope they’re listened.