EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

I think Jas is from the ROI, stuck between the UK and the EU.

I also feel the thread is getting a bit side-tracked, thoughts on the EU / Brexit in general influence individuals but don't seem relevant to doses coming or not.

Status:

1. UK won't get anything from Halix (and don't know what we expected, but perhaps some refund for UK investment is due),
2. UK got Pfizer second doses and are getting Moderna.
3. Australia didn't get any doses, all agree EU has greater need but would have done better to ask.
4. Nobody seems to know what Covax are due from the EU, nor whether they're getting it.

So far, for all the pontificating, not much has been withheld and it looks like EC and EU country rhetoric has calmed down a lot. Has it all gone away? Or are Covax more affected than UK?

@EasterIssland
I don’t know where your Spanish relatives live, obvs, bust just making a point here about it, as it is depending on where they live, the region (Comunidad Autónoma).

My parents (85+) were vaccinated at the beginning of February, second dose at the beginning of March (Valencia). My very elderly aunt (90+) was fully vaccinated by mid February (Madrid). All of my friends’ parents who are 80+ will be fully vaccinated by next Friday (Valencia, Madrid, Catalunya, Murcia), as one lady, the last one to be called due to a misunderstanding with the lady who helps her at home, is getting the second dose on Friday. None of them at care homes. All of them have got Pfizer apart from the last couple being vaccinated, ModeRNA.

Another elderly aunt (91) in a care home was fully vaccinated in the care home vaccination programme in Valencia by the end of January.

In Valencia, where my family is from, even teachers of any age have been vaccinated (first dose of AZ received during March) and this week they are vaccinating with AZ people born in 1956 and 1957.

To be honest with you, I don’t thing it is as bad as it is presented here. It is all very well organised, at least in my “home” region (even when I don’t like the current regional government in charge, ‘Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s’) and the second dose is promptly administered.

Very funny @Itsalonghaul because thats all these threads ever become... EU bashing

Yet the moment i respond to another one of Baileys inaccurate EU criticisms.... you try to shut me down..... how about telling 3asabird to stop her anti EU rant? no thought not

Jasjas accuse posters on this thread of EU bashing trying to shut you down.
The Westminsterenders thread which you frequent is page after page, thread after thread of Britain and Brexit bashing.
Anyone who goes there with an alternative view is derided, discussed in the most sneering terms between the regulars and told they’re thick, racist etc.
So according to you, that’s fine but EU criticism on other threads isn’t?

[quote LaBrujaPiruja]@EasterIssland
I don’t know where your Spanish relatives live, obvs, bust just making a point here about it, as it is depending on where they live, the region (Comunidad Autónoma).

My parents (85+) were vaccinated at the beginning of February, second dose at the beginning of March (Valencia). My very elderly aunt (90+) was fully vaccinated by mid February (Madrid). All of my friends’ parents who are 80+ will be fully vaccinated by next Friday (Valencia, Madrid, Catalunya, Murcia), as one lady, the last one to be called due to a misunderstanding with the lady who helps her at home, is getting the second dose on Friday. None of them at care homes. All of them have got Pfizer apart from the last couple being vaccinated, ModeRNA.

Another elderly aunt (91) in a care home was fully vaccinated in the care home vaccination programme in Valencia by the end of January.

In Valencia, where my family is from, even teachers of any age have been vaccinated (first dose of AZ received during March) and this week they are vaccinating with AZ people born in 1956 and 1957.

To be honest with you, I don’t thing it is as bad as it is presented here. It is all very well organised, at least in my “home” region (even when I don’t like the current regional government in charge, ‘Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s’) and the second dose is promptly administered.[/quote]
Hi
I'm Basque , my aunt is being vaccinated today
My mum is 61 , not vaccinated yet, despite she's in the age of AZ which are vaccinating
My dad is 66, not vaccinated til maybe may?

Some people I know from Castilla y Leon are saying their relatives are being vaccinated now, despite they're 80+
Salamanca is vaccinating tomorrow people from 1932 www.salamanca24horas.com/texto-diario/mostrar/2824801/preguntas-respuestas-vacunacion-masiva-salamanca

This is not looking good on the EU

www.politico.eu/article/australia-coronavirus-vaccines-eu-astrazeneca/

@LaBrujaPiruja there’s a bit of a Norman’s land if you’re between 65 and 80 in Spain at the moment as the AZ is for 65 and below and the Pfizer and moderna is being administered to the over 80s. In 33 and had mine a couple of weeks ago, my friends grandparents are all vaccinated as well as a lot of my friends (professions) but not their parents because they’re in that gap.but Sanchez said yesterday that were on track so that’s hopeful.

Yes, I heard things are quite slow in the Basque Country.
I have also heard very elderly people with private insurance via Muface (retired civil servants, for non Spanish readers) have not been vaccinated in most areas; political reasons in this case, they claim. I don’t know if this is 100% true but, if it is, I have no words to describe how unfair and unethical it is.

My point is entirely that it is not as bad as it is presented in the UK. I had a chat with people at work yesterday and they were telling me I was telling them lies, my parents and elderly relatives cannot be vaccinated because they have read or been told that in Spain and in the EU they are not vaccinating almost anybody...

@QuentininQuarantino
That’s due to the availability of Pfizer and ModeRNA doses. Again, Valencia, I know of people in the 70 to 79 bracket being given appointments for this week and the next few weeks, so it’s on track and for what I know (relatives in the medical profession) these are getting ModeRNA.

@LaBrujaPiruja

Yes, I heard things are quite slow in the Basque Country. I have also heard very elderly people with private insurance via Muface (retired civil servants, for non Spanish readers) have not been vaccinated in most areas; political reasons in this case, they claim. I don’t know if this is 100% true but, if it is, I have no words to describe how unfair and unethical it is.

My point is entirely that it is not as bad as it is presented in the UK. I had a chat with people at work yesterday and they were telling me I was telling them lies, my parents and elderly relatives cannot be vaccinated because they have read or been told that in Spain and in the EU they are not vaccinating almost anybody...

My info is not the one being told in the uk but the one I’ve from my family and friends around the country. The government promised 2 weeks ago everyone would be vaccinated over 80s this week and it’s not happened. It doesn’t matter if they are basque or anywhere else. And things were bad few weeks ago in my area , but it’s not anymore the case. The vaccines are being used.

As @QuentininQuarantino has said the PM promised yesterday that 70% of the population will be fully vaccinated by end of august (as la sexta said yesterday this is anyone over 32 I think or something like that ). Fully ... that’s quite a lot of vaccines to receive ! Ans not only that , they shouldn’t rely on az then as there is a 3 month gap for being fully

@EasterIssland
I don’t particularly like Sánchez; in fact I think he is been feeding us sterile promises all the time. My point is that it is not as bad as it is presented in the UK, not that it is a good deployment programme.

Yes in the Basque Country too we have been stuck with save-the-second-dose-sagardui and only recently have they started to change that. Here is the state of play - of course it’s not as bad as it’s made out here but then what would baileys and itsalonghaul do with their time if they couldn’t throw some shade in their echo chamber!?

And this might be an unpopular opinion but I think it was the right choice to prioritise the public facing workers over the early retirees who for the most part can shield without financial impact - we have had bars, schools and shops open throughout and I think it’s important to maintain that.

quentin In terms of keeping infection in control, and hospitals from being overwhelmed vaccinating the most vulnerable is a better option.

You haven't actually had the third wave of the new variant yet in Spain, only the old one, I think a better assessment could be made once you have experienced high levels of the new strains. I am sorry to say but they are lethally infectious, more deadly and are ripping through the whole of societies at break neck speed. Keeping cafes and bars open comes with the risk of severe outbreaks, that you are yet to experience.

Ask France. Brazil. India or the UK over the winter. It is still to come for Spain, that is why you are feeling relaxed about those choices I suspect.
The Elderly and frail will need help both medically and in the community so can not be sealed off! It is an illusion.
What you really mean is Spanish government policy is that the elderly and frail will be collateral damage for the bars to stay open. Sadly for them.

I am glad here in the UK we value or elderly and vulnerable more than the bars staying open, personally I feel they have made the most humane choice. There would be uproar if we choose to force older people to shield, and a legal case for discrimination certainly. Whilst we continued with the rest of the country cracked on in the bars.

That is not the kind of society I would wish to live in, especially if I was over the age of 50! I would feel like covid fodder.

I think she said 'early retirees' to be fair. Not the elderly and frail.

I agree with prioritising the elderly personally but I can see the logic in other routes.

@Itsalonghaul
You haven't actually had the third wave of the new variant yet in Spain, only the old one, I think a better assessment could be made once you have experienced high levels of the new strains. I am sorry to say but they are lethally infectious, more deadly and are ripping through the whole of societies at break neck speed. Keeping cafes and bars open comes with the risk of severe outbreaks, that you are yet to experience.

I've come to think we were lucky in Denmark that the English variant swiftly became dominant during our second wave. It was already 90%+ of cases when we started a slow reopening, so we knew what we were dealing with.

The SA and other variants pop up briefly here and there but don't seem to able to displace the English one.

@Itsalonghaul
Whaaaat? Are you serious? “The elderly and frail will be collateral damage for the bars to stay open”. It beggars belief, the oversimplification of it all.
I am sorry to say this but you have no idea (hours open, inside vs outside, curfews, etc.). The elderly and frail people who I know and got COVID did not get it from bars.

@Itsalonghaul most of the cases in Spain nowadays are because of the British variant, over 50% of them are from this one, this is from a few weeks ago
elpais.com/sociedad/2021-03-24/la-variante-britanica-del-coronavirus-ya-es-predominante-en-espana.html

Yes that would be the case if they weren’t vaccinating the elderly but you must have missed that part of my post @Itsalonghaul - they’re going simultaneously down the ages (now in the 70s in most places) and are doing the public workers to keep the economy and education open. It’s not one or the other.

@QuentininQuarantino

Yes that would be the case if they weren’t vaccinating the elderly but you must have missed that part of my post *@Itsalonghaul* - they’re going simultaneously down the ages (now in the 70s in most places) and are doing the public workers to keep the economy and education open. It’s not one or the other.

The current situation is Spain is Pfizer/Moderna 80s+ , some areas are 70s+ AZ 55-65 , most of my friends parents have been now vaccinated with it , my mum is still waiting AZ Police/Army/Teachers/Other Health workers that weren't frontline

JasJas you're still pretending to not know the contracts are the issue and that UK and India have very different deals and contracts with their Vaccine producers than the EU has. The EU is literally stealing bought and paid for vaccines from Australia. You do know the difference so stop pretending and trying to send the thread in circles - contracts are the difference

No pretense, just the realism that when in an emergency, national interest takes precedent, contracts have to be overruled.

All countries block exports that are against their national interests... as well you know.

If you think it's in a nations interest to make existing and potential investors wary of operating in your territories or trusting you then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I don't agree though.

Can you give me some examples of countries who block exports of privately owned goods to countries that have legally ordered and paid for them? You say, 'as well you know' but I really can't think of examples.

I've been googling but all I come with are export bans relating to economic sanctions or countries that others won't sell to weapons to. Genuinely interested to see your examples of it being such common practice that it merited your, 'as well you know' comment.

@Andante57

Very funny @Itsalonghaul because thats all these threads ever become... EU bashing

Yet the moment i respond to another one of Baileys inaccurate EU criticisms.... you try to shut me down..... how about telling 3asabird to stop her anti EU rant? no thought not

Jasjas accuse posters on this thread of EU bashing trying to shut you down.
The Westminsterenders thread which you frequent is page after page, thread after thread of Britain and Brexit bashing.
Anyone who goes there with an alternative view is derided, discussed in the most sneering terms between the regulars and told they’re thick, racist etc.
So according to you, that’s fine but EU criticism on other threads isn’t?

Not really a Westminsters regular though am i? and it is a thread all about the EU/Brexit and UKs relationship

However, i was responding to a poster who said i was bringing in brexit, shouldn't do it as it had nothing to do with this thread.... if thats correct, then be fair and pull up other posters who use threads like this to continually bash the EU but will broke no opposition to their musings.

As i said, the EU haven't blocked vaccine to the UK, yet the brexitiers have managed to have 3 threads on a subject that hasn't even happened! mostly just a stream of anti EU rhetoric, which apparently cannot be challenged :(

@TheHoneyBadger

I've been googling but all I come with are export bans relating to economic sanctions or countries that others won't sell to weapons to. Genuinely interested to see your examples of it being such common practice that it merited your, 'as well you know' comment.

You ve just named two examples! both of which curtail trade in favour of national interest.

Another example, is the USA blocking certain chipsets to China.
Or many other countries stopping Huawei's involvement in comms networks.