EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

@Andante57

The glee, from some, in wanting to the EU fail is very sad, should that happen, it would have a terrible effect on the UK but that seems to be a price worth paying?

Iirc after the referendum there was a lot of wanting Britain to fail and Brexiteers to be hit the hardest.

There are some who are struggling to hide their disappointment that it hasn't. Plenty of grasping at straws going on: "but the UK hasn't properly vaccinated people" etc.

Jasjas you surely know that the EU is big on austerity and balanced books - did you miss what happened to Greece?

There's already a case to try and block the bail out money because it is a collective debt and some are against that on principle and think the countries who are sinking should be the ones to pay it back.

Brussels and the IMF decimated Greece.

@jasjas1973 what’s wrong with bashing the EU if they have messed up? The UK is bashed all the time. It’s a good thing to criticise governments, they should be held accountable. That’s why the EU doesn’t work, your no time allowed to criticise them, why? UVDL should’ve been sacked in my opinion, yet she’s still there making stupid mistakes.

Apologies that should have been the ECB not IMF though I don't know how closely the two are involved.

You are right about that theHoneyBadger talk to any Greek about how they feel being part of the EU, or how they feel about Germany in particular. The counter argument usually is that Greece couldn't really afford to join the EU in the first place, well why was it allowed then? And what does that mean with regards to membership with countries like Romania and other small countries?

The EU lost control some time ago in terms of expansion. Was it ambition or stupidity or both?

jas I think you need to get over brexit. It is literally all you ever talk about. Like some recording stuck on the same line. It needs to stop because you are now a lone voice, still saying how amazing the EU is even as we can clearly see they are from that.

Most of us know the EU project was a good thing when it was born, but now I am afraid it is a monstrous ageing autocratic super state that is neither accountable nor able to functional well, and hasn't for years. I am sorry it did not work out the way you hoped.

The coronavirus fund is destined to fail. Many capitals do not support it at all. The court case will be one of many and this will drag on for years and years. It is a shame as I think Italy and Spain have already ear marked most of the spending and even started in some areas, big mistake.

Bail outs come with massive strings.

I always struggled with the idea that people on the left who hated austerity were keen to remain a part of a union that is absolutely wedded to it. Bail outs come with demands that public sector pay, benefits, public services etc are cut and with a swathe of privatisation.

@Itsalonghaul

You are right about that theHoneyBadger talk to any Greek about how they feel being part of the EU, or how they feel about Germany in particular. The counter argument usually is that Greece couldn't really afford to join the EU in the first place, well why was it allowed then? And what does that mean with regards to membership with countries like Romania and other small countries?

The EU lost control some time ago in terms of expansion. Was it ambition or stupidity or both?

Some countries get more back from eu than they contributed.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318

Wonder who pay uk share.
Seems Netherlands and Germany may have to pay more to make up for fact uk has left.
Many argue well we got some money back from EU.
Just seems simpler replicate whatever schemes people got eu money from if it was a fair scheme and worth keeping.
I hope uk uses bullion it paid EU make a real difference.

It seems EU budgets done every 7 years which doesn't leave much scope for something awful happening like coronavirus.

A lot if economist have said don't worry about debt right now financial support and stimulus is what will help countries economies.
Austerity at this moment in time would be a mistake.
The EU is mix of very different countries.
Some maybe shouldn't be allowed to join.
Also economies in the south Spain,Portugal and Italy may suffer as tourism some a large part of gdp.
Where as German manufacturing i assume continues.
The original eu plan eec seems good.
A 27 member super state

Non elected commission
All with same currency and no mechanism like tax raising powers seems a mistake because if any member state is in trouble they are limited what they can do themselves.
Germans seen irritated with bailing some counties out

The Eu still holding Australia’s vaccines, that they have paid for

Australia says EU asked it to withdraw Covid vaccine export permit applications

Australia said on Wednesday the European Union asked it to withdraw export permit applications for AstraZeneca PLC’s Covid-19 vaccine, ratcheting up its dispute with Europe over access to pre-purchased inoculations, Reuters reports.

The Australian government has blamed the delay of 3.1 million AstraZeneca doses, that were scheduled to be delivered by the end of March, for falling behind in its own vaccination programme.

The European Union on Tuesday denied blocking the shipments of the vaccine to Australia, and said it was not responsible for AstraZeneca’s failure to uphold commitments to other countries.

The dispute underscores massive shortfalls of the AstraZeneca shot across the EU and the impact of any vaccine export curbs on countries that had pre-ordered doses.

“The EC is arguing semantics but at the end of the day, all we want is what Australians have ordered so we can get more vaccines in arms,” the Australian government said in a statement on Wednesday, referring to the EU’s executive branch, the European Commission.

Canberra said the EC requested Australia withdraw export permit applications and that AstraZeneca has told Canberra that it has not been able to secure an export license from Europe to send the pre-purchased doses to Australia.

“The EC has been absolutely clear in their public and private statements that no further doses of (the AstraZeneca vaccine) are to be released until they have had their own orders fulfilled,” Canberra said.

Australia received an initial shipment of 300,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in late February, which it said was the last received. It has also imported doses of Pfizer Inc’s vaccine.

The AstraZeneca vaccine arriving from Europe was to underpin the early stages of Australia’s vaccine drive, supplementing 50 million shots of the vaccine that will be produced locally by CSL Ltd.

Australia has recorded just 909 Covid-19 deaths since the pandemic began, a small number compared to most nations.

But its inoculation programme is running behind schedule with only about 670,000 people vaccinated against an initial target of 4 million by March-end.

Very funny @Itsalonghaul because thats all these threads ever become... EU bashing.

the EU isn't banning AZ exports, yet still you people keep bring up everything from this (non story) to IMF/ECB/Greece/eurozone/uk kept EU together/german collapse in manufacturing/unelected commission blah blah bla etc etc and all of what i ve listed is just on page 24..... and none not one bit is to do with the thread.......

Yet the moment i respond to another one of Baileys inaccurate EU criticisms.... you try to shut me down..... how about telling 3asabird to stop her anti EU rant? no thought not.

The European Union on Tuesday denied blocking the shipments of the vaccine to Australia, and said it was not responsible for AstraZeneca’s failure to uphold commitments to other countries

Isn't this exactly what the UK is doing?

How on earth can you expect to prioritise vaccines to Australia,which is virtually CV free, whilst europe is facing 100s of 1000s of new infections?
Well, actually i do understand why... because its the EU.

@jasjas1973

The European Union on Tuesday denied blocking the shipments of the vaccine to Australia, and said it was not responsible for AstraZeneca’s failure to uphold commitments to other countries

Isn't this exactly what the UK is doing?

How on earth can you expect to prioritise vaccines to Australia,which is virtually CV free, whilst europe is facing 100s of 1000s of new infections?
Well, actually i do understand why... because its the EU.

Australia might be COVID free but yet has bought vaccines for their citizens. Iceland is COVID free ans is also vaccinating their citizens. Also few weeks ago Australia was begging eu for 1m doses so they could send them to Papua New Guinea as they’re having big problems atm with COVID ... and no, uk is no blocking exports , az has got a commitment to the uk with the British factories , whilst the European factories don’t have that commitment to the Eu.

@jasjas1973 I will continue to criticise and question the EU, the same as I do with the British Government if the British Government were blocking and stealing vaccines that other countries had payed for and signed a contract for, yes I would be highly critical.

Regarding Australia, I do think the EU has a better argument. Australia has zero Covid and no one dying, they’ve probably not had a death for months.
Australia should be more understanding about this and voluntarily move back down their place in the queue (imo) but this is probably a hard sell to Australians who want to be able to leave Australia at some point in 2021.
The U.K. is not in this position, or wasn’t and had the worse death rate in Europe. (This is not the case any longer of course). Plus we are in Europe with a great exchange of people and goods.
My understanding re. Buying doses is that a country is not buying particular doses that then belong to them, as the doses did not physically exist when they ordered them. Rather they were buying a place in the queue for when the doses are made.

@jasjas1973 the above was copied from the Guardian if it’s incorrect take it up with them

I see the Moderna doses are starting to arrive....from Spain

@TheMancunianCandidate

I see the Moderna doses are starting to arrive....from Spain

Yes, back on track, it's great to see they are on the way. Has anyone seen a number from an official source for how many are coming in April / May?

JasJas, please read my posts properly if you are going to comment on them. I have never posted a link about the EU on any thread, ever.

JasJas you're still pretending to not know the contracts are the issue and that UK and India have very different deals and contracts with their Vaccine producers than the EU has. The EU is literally stealing bought and paid for vaccines from Australia. You do know the difference so stop pretending and trying to send the thread in circles - contracts are the difference.

Again, UK not moaning at India because it knows and respects that India has a contract to supply it's own population first, just as we have here. EU does not have such a contract and is trampling all over private industry raiding them and blocking their exports like a tinpot dictator.

4,000 people died in Brazil in just one day.
Their Healthcare system is on the brink of collapse.

Unless the EU get to grips with vaccines - this will happen to them. It is unbelievable that people are dithering about this or that, clearly some countries have no idea what is coming for them.

We are looking down the barrel of serious loss of life this summer.

@mrex I believe not many, but ive read roll out in Wales from today and Scotland has got them as well.

Dan Staner, Moderna's vice president of Europe, also told the Mail that the company would begin sending vaccines to the U.K. "within days." Shipments with hundreds of thousands of doses will be delivered every week over the next two months, amounting to 2 million doses by the end of May.

What I don't know and Would like to know is whether the gap is 12 weeks as well, in Spain I know they're doing it 4 weeks(28 days)

Australia has paid AZ for the vaccine doses and has an export licence application for them.
The EU has asked Australia to withdraw it's application.
AZ said it has Australia's vaccines, which Australia has paid for but the EU will not allow them to export.

Can you imagine if they'd chosen diplomacy over threats and bully tactics? I imagine things would be looking a lot better. They're making it so it will be politically difficult for people to help them because they'll crow around making out they 'won' some kind of pissing contest and it will endorse the basically illegal and destructive tactics they've applied.

If UK does help now it looks like Bojo has allowed himself to be bullied (which certain hard line quarters of the brexit camp, and tory voters, will find unforgivable). They've boxed people into corners that weren't necessary.

@jasjas1973

the EU isn't banning AZ exports, yet still you people keep bring up everything from this (non story) to IMF/ECB/Greece/eurozone/uk kept EU together/german collapse in manufacturing/unelected commission blah blah bla etc etc and all of what i ve listed is just on page 24..... and none not one bit is to do with the thread.......

I think that the fact that we are on iteration 3 of this thread despite the fact that the original story is very much chip paper tells you everything you need to know about the motives of the most frequent posters.

I fully expect iterations 4,5,6 and more to appear in the fullness of time...

..and goes back to lurking

Jasjas I would have more respect for your posts if they were slightly balanced and honest. When the UK messes up (and they/we do frequently!) I am the first to be honest and open about the mistakes made.

Your posts however, totally lack any acknowledgment of any EU failures, which makes me wonder why you are so wedded to the idea they are perfect and beyond all reproach.

I don't trust people that constantly blast one argument without even making the smallest effort to understand what others are saying. It makes me consider their motives, such a lack of balanced and critical thinking. Or perhaps certain people just enjoy a good on line dust up and brexit/EU thread can be counted on for that.

If you live in the UK and have a life here, why so much ill feeling towards your own country? I am not convinced it is healthy .