EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

@Baileysforchristmas

The UK are nearly up to 60% first doses and 9.4% second doses so still on track, we’ll see what happens in the next couple of weeks .

Thats positive I just worry me and husband in 40s and not been called for 1st jabs yet. Hopefully we producing enough.

We could ask eu for money back or I guess we take legal action .

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9429095/UK-taxpayers-pumped-21m-fitting-Dutch-vaccine-factory-EU-blocked.html

Does Boris really think we get another wave within a month as said we 3 weeks behind France.
France is not quite where we were in December with 60k cases and 1000 deaths but guess the worst is yet to come.
I don't see how we can open up international travel in may.

No Johnson doesn't think we'll get another wave in a few weeks - its all cautionary messaging designed to make sure that the public doesn't go potty and throw caution to the wind and start gathering indoors in a bout of heady enthusiasm given that we can now meet outdoors. It fits with the commercials now on tv showing people in outdoor social situations (the one I saw was in a garden) thinking aloud and pondering the dilemma - 'ooh I'd like to give them a hug, its only Marjorie and Terry - but wait, what about covid. Its not worth the risk' (or words to that effect)

Re our Moderna delivery in April - its tiny isn't it? I am sure I read 500,000 doses

@LimitIsUp

No Johnson doesn't think we'll get another wave in a few weeks - its all cautionary messaging designed to make sure that the public doesn't go potty and throw caution to the wind and start gathering indoors in a bout of heady enthusiasm given that we can now meet outdoors. It fits with the commercials now on tv showing people in outdoor social situations (the one I saw was in a garden) thinking aloud and pondering the dilemma - 'ooh I'd like to give them a hug, its only Marjorie and Terry - but wait, what about covid. Its not worth the risk' (or words to that effect)

Re our Moderna delivery in April - its tiny isn't it? I am sure I read 500,000 doses

Yes its not much impact 500k from 17million order. Eu has had more bur revised downwards i think on what was expected.

Not even sure total number of eligible adults I did try Google.

So far the UK vaccines produced unknown number
21 million from Europe
5million received from india

We vaccinated as of 2 days ago

35.7million 4.51 had both doses so 6-8 uk adult population.
We still vaccinating 1st 9million priority groups in many areas.
We don't know how much backstock we sat on.

Just makes me feel uneasy.

I'm hoping Easter doesn't see big rises but fail see how not a few school's near me had cases.
Lots acting like pandemics over.
Think non essential and hairdressers on the 12th.
Then school's return after Easter after possibly socialising with families as in December they said Easter was the new Xmas see your families then.
Mine are Wales so won't be seeing them.

I have had 1st jab (52), but I am very keen to see the forty somethings and then the thirty somethings vaccinated (less pressing need for those that are younger). I have background worries about vaccine availability but it could drive you nuts thinking about it too much. I keep trying to hold on to the positive news like the fact that currently 50% of the UK population have covid antibodies either through vaccine or natural infection

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-britons-have-coronavirus-antibodies-says-ons-0bxtj80j7 - that's where I got 50% of the UK popn has antibodies should anyone ask

@LimitIsUp

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/half-of-britons-have-coronavirus-antibodies-says-ons-0bxtj80j7 - that's where I got 50% of the UK popn has antibodies should anyone ask

Yes, it's worth noting that will be increasing each day as the hundreds of thousands of newly vaccinated build up their immunity. I'm still hopeful of cases dropping like a stone soon.

I think the dropping lime a stone might have started.... . Hope that’s not tempting fate though.

I think Chile is doing well with vaccines, then relaxed really quickly and had an upsurge in cases.

Hopefully we manage to stay broadly sensible and we follow Israel.

www.nytimes.com/2021/03/30/world/americas/chile-vaccination-cases-surge.html

Two million AZ each week according to John Bell on radio 4 program on 20th March but I think he was referring to Oxford Biomedica which he described as the biggest UK producer.

Does anyone know if our initial investment in AZ vaccine came with profit shares or ongoing interests once the 'at cost' period runs out?

I don't want us to block pfizer components or any of that but the way that the EU has behaved and the blocking of exports etc makes me hope we have and we can set different prices and tariffs on different zones of the world. Would be happy to continue with at cost for poorer nations but after these exploits and haggling to drive down price per unit on 'at cost' vaccines I'd be inclined, after we're out of emergency times, to charge EU less than other vaccines but way more than we charge the rest of the world who haven't behaved so awfully.

I also really hope, aside from my bit of vindictiveness there, that we secured ongoing interest and some kind of profit share and that a good portion of our investment has gone into sustainable developments for our pharma capacities here in UK and our relationships with pharma globally. It would be good if there were ongoing benefits from having made that investment and if we saw some regaining of manufacturing industry and jobs here as a result of it.

I do think we need to start being rather more resilient and less dependent on the EU. At this point I feel we should also tell them to get stuffed with regard to any 'withdrawal fees' left to pay though that may be the heat of the moment.

I should think 2m a week would be plenty for ongoing boosters and annual needs once we through this massive first wave of vaccination wouldn't it? Presumably that capacity will also be expanding and giving us capacity to export by then also. I would hope the R&D side is primed to be looking at modifying in the event of significant mutations and staying ahead of the game globally and we do seem to be good at the genome study side of things and keeping abreast of the mutation situation.

It would be great to specialise in disease research, pharma development and manufacturing as well as our financial services. The former obviously provides plenty of manufacturing opportunities also as we've seen with things having to be sent all over the place to be eg. bottled.

It would be good to see something positive come out of this and some ways to help rebuild the economy and employment prospects of the nation.

@TheHoneyBadger

Do you want an even frostier relationship with the EU? maybe a Cold war mk2.

Maybe the EU could reciprocate and charge hauliers more to travel to the UK and shipping too, have a UK only tourist tax?

what do you imagine the EU would do if we charged them more for Pharma then anyone else?

Every country is going to try to gain economic advantage post CV, we have AZ or rather 50% of it, , Germany Biontech the US Pfizer JnJ, Moderna etc.
By the time this is over, they'll be a host of other vaccines and treatments not yet discovered, from around the world.

Sure, hopefully we remain at the cutting edge for speed and good partnerships between business and state though. We're not going back to pretending pandemics aren't on the cards anymore after this and research and development is going to be vital.

What do I imagine they'd do if we charged them more for AZ? Buy other vaccines I guess and hope that the countries who invested in them are willing to provide them or hope that pharma will feel safe operating in their territories after everything they've done and the administrative nightmares they've thrown at them which Pfizer have been very vocal about.

I can’t see the EMA signing off the Russian vaccine any time soon, I wonder if EU countries will still use it?

www.politico.eu/article/more-eu-countries-eyeing-separate-deals-russia-sputnik-vaccine/

@TheHoneyBadger

Sure, hopefully we remain at the cutting edge for speed and good partnerships between business and state though. We're not going back to pretending pandemics aren't on the cards anymore after this and research and development is going to be vital.

What do I imagine they'd do if we charged them more for AZ? Buy other vaccines I guess and hope that the countries who invested in them are willing to provide them or hope that pharma will feel safe operating in their territories after everything they've done and the administrative nightmares they've thrown at them which Pfizer have been very vocal about.

The way i see it going fwd, is far less cooperation, business and state level. Brexit is all about the UK becoming a rival to the EU, not a partner.

Pharma cannot make a vaccine for a pandemic not yet known about & certainly won't even look at unless there is money in it, so we are looking at state funding, after a few years of no pandemics, that'll be cut until its non existent, over a 100 years since the last serious one.

Look, we have pandemic exercises very often but time again, their findings are ignored, bit like the dangers of climate change are ignored?

[quote Baileysforchristmas]I can’t see the EMA signing off the Russian vaccine any time soon, I wonder if EU countries will still use it?

www.politico.eu/article/more-eu-countries-eyeing-separate-deals-russia-sputnik-vaccine/[/quote]
But their own medical regulators can authorise its use, like we did with AZ, whilst still in transition, so fully under EU rules.

So much depends on how the AZ clotting issue turns out, i find it v worrying that the UK is only finding these cases after the concerns raised by other countries.

Hungary is already using Sputnik. My colleague’s sister (who lives in Hungary) has her jab on Tuesday. The village where she lives a hour or so from Budapest is getting a delivery. Her mum has already had one of the Chinese vaccines. So Hungary at least are doing their own thing and not waiting for the EMA.

The issue the EU has around the Sputnik is also political, relying on an old enemy for vaccines. I am not sure Eastern Europeans will feel about these arrangement and alliances, or the US for that.

An alliance of any kind with Russia is dangerous, and no doubt will be exploited by them. Everyone should be considering the impact on NATO and on peace in the region.

The Eastern Europeans with good reason may feel very betrayed and uncomfortable. Along with Nordstream and Germany's apparent reliance on Russia - seemingly Russia are benefiting from this chaos in more ways than one, and will continue to exploit the situation.

for that matter.

The clotting cases are not 'new' they were published weeks ago jas and there are very few when we consider the sheer numbers of vaccines already given.

Spanish news are reporting that France has said that they only need az until June. After that they can rely in other vaccines. Taking into account eu is promising to have everyone fully vaccinated by the 14th of July guess they wouldn’t need more vaccines.

Btw my mum is 62. She’s meant to have az as Spanish rules. She’s not had it yet. She’s gonna struggle to be fully vaccinated by 14th July.
My dad is 66 and he’s meant to have pfizer or moderna. None yet. But they do second dose by 21 and 18 days so he should be by July

An alliance of any kind with Russia is dangerous, and no doubt will be exploited by them. Everyone should be considering the impact on NATO and on peace in the region

If we'd done that, we'd not have left the EU, a course of action fully endorsed by Putin.... & for that matter Trump - not a fan of NATO either, ever wondered why @Itsalonghaul ?

@jasjas1973 at least we have the data for AZ. A lot of data and actually it’s making feel safer, even the numbers of becoming very ill or dying from AZ coming from EU countries are really low, the data on Sputnik isn’t there yet and Russia aren’t forthcoming with it, that’s why it’s going to be hard for the EU to approve. Would you prefer a vaccine that was approved by the EMA or not? I know which one I would prefer.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@jasjas1973 at least we have the data for AZ. A lot of data and actually it’s making feel safer, even the numbers of becoming very ill or dying from AZ coming from EU countries are really low, the data on Sputnik isn’t there yet and Russia aren’t forthcoming with it, that’s why it’s going to be hard for the EU to approve. Would you prefer a vaccine that was approved by the EMA or not? I know which one I would prefer.[/quote]
We don't know any of that, only that we are told the Russians wont release the data, which isn't quite the same thing.

The UK started administering the AZ vaccine long before EMA approval.