EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

I don’t think the pharmaceutical companies will move but I do think that contracts will be tightened with exporting clauses for future covid vaccines. There will also be countries looking at setting their own manufacturing capabilities outside of the EU.

Novavax has moved some of it's fill/finish to Barnard Castle.

I heard the CFO of Valneva on R4 a few days ago saying they anticipated moving fill/finish from Sweden to the UK. I put the full quote earlier on this thread.

That's at least two companies who have moved part of their production from the EU to the UK, in direct response to customer concerns on EU restrictions on vaccine export.

@3asAbird

If the UK has invested 25million in the Netherlands site will we just walk away and accept no vaccines from there. For obvious reasons I don't trust uk press bias so sought out Dutch news .

www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/03/dutch-had-chance-to-invest-in-leiden-vaccine-maker-halix-nos/

Who reimburses us az or eu.
Its not like the UK is a charity.

That's infuriating!

@3asAbird

If the UK has invested 25million in the Netherlands site will we just walk away and accept no vaccines from there. For obvious reasons I don't trust uk press bias so sought out Dutch news .

www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/03/dutch-had-chance-to-invest-in-leiden-vaccine-maker-halix-nos/

Who reimburses us az or eu.
Its not like the UK is a charity.

I thought this was all known, the investments in Halix were in the media here. Worst case it was £21/ dose, so AZ can adapt bills accordingly, it's up to them to resolve the financials. What's a bit frustrating is that if AZ and the EC went to court then the full explanations could be given by AZ of where they made effort - and likewise there must be reasons from EC about why they chose not to invest, or expose communication gaps between countries and EC. Either way, it would make discussion look less like gossip and more like contractual law.

It's a lesson to the UK government, as well as the companies and institutions serving them not to invest in the EU for UK deliveries; long term that will help reduce the balance of trade deficit. The effect beyond these borders doesn't need to be exaggerated beyond that.

Regarding RoI, Arlene Foster suggested giving doses linked with the end of the article 16 debacle and subsequent border issues: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9205287/Send-surplus-jabs-Republic-Ireland-help-Irish-neighbours-Boris-Johnson-urged.html. I think it was Leo Varadkar's comments that perhaps got extended a little. Reporting varied wildly around his statement that the UK would have spare supply until a point at which Ireland already had enough and they were therefore happy sticking with the EU. E.g. www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/leo-varadkar-ireland-would-be-happy-to-buy-surplus-uk-vaccines-if-available-1086142.html or www.newstalk.com/news/the-uk-does-not-have-extra-vaccines-to-sell-to-ireland-leo-varadkar-1155253.
If there are a million or two spare then I think RoI should come first of course.

The rights and wrongs seem very insignificant when the deaths and cases are becoming scary in countries such as France, Poland and Italy. The one thing the UK and the EU have got in common is bad decisions have caused thousands of deaths. Politicians have let us all down.

@Boulshired

The rights and wrongs seem very insignificant when the deaths and cases are becoming scary in countries such as France, Poland and Italy. The one thing the UK and the EU have got in common is bad decisions have caused thousands of deaths. Politicians have let us all down.

I agree Poland rates are really high so is France. We know from being in UK what happens when you lock down too late. Whats worrying is the rates of south African and Brazilian varient is high in Belgium Luxembourg Germany and France. 23 out 27 states I think have south African varient. Thats the one that more likely be resistant to vaccines. Germany are predicting some huge numbers but lockdown hard as up to each federal state. In France they always been allowed meet in houses and keeping schools open has not helped.

I think when all this is over uk and most Europe have similar figures and made silly mistakes that cost lives.

The rights and wrongs seem very insignificant when the deaths and cases are becoming scary in countries such as France, Poland and Italy. The one thing the UK and the EU have got in common is bad decisions have caused thousands of deaths. Politicians have let us all down

I agree the EU have made some bad decisions, and I can see why you feel let down.
I am based in the UK and the vaccine roll out success has most definitely saved the day here. I don't feel let down, because I have had a vaccine - early forties no CEV and we are about to released from lockdown with some degree of protection for everyone. I feel like our gov has made some very good decisions and they enjoy widespread support.

I don't think the UK should walk away from their 25 million tax payer funded investment, the Netherlands/EU should repay the UK.

I am based in the UK and the vaccine roll out success has most definitely saved the day here. I don't feel let down, because I have had a vaccine. I feel like our gov has made some very good decisions and they enjoy widespread support.

I think you're quite unusual in your support of the government there. Nobody could argue that the decision to hand the vaccine procurement to an expert who performed an excellent job was a good one. What are the others?

I feel incredibly let down. Boris' dithering over the first bloody lockdown has given my dear cousin and his wife long covid to the extent that one has been in and out of hospital for a year and the other can't get up any stairs. My cousin (a nurse) feels incredibly let down that after all that Boris and his cronies couldn't deign to give them a proper payrise, apparently clapping on the street was enough payment for working horrendous shifts to save other people and then get struck down yourself for nearly 8 months now, he feels let down they didn't have enough PPE too. His wife is too young to have the vaccine despite being a teacher, she feels pretty let down that teachers haven't been given vaccines earlier as carers have. She's too sick to work anyway but her colleagues felt incredibly let down being told all Christmas that they were going back only to have them mix for a day before another U turn. My aunt might feel let down if it wasn't her funeral tomorrow.

I don't feel much let down personally, because, like you, I've already had my vaccine, but only a naked emperor could try and sell this (wonderful) vaccine rollout as anything other than offering a plaster to someone you've just beaten to a pulp.

I think you're quite unusual in your support of the government there. Nobody could argue that the decision to hand the vaccine procurement to an expert who performed an excellent job was a good one. What are the others? Oh please. Lets not re-write history! They were pilloried for that decision! She was 'in bed' with Cummings and it was all croneyism, a shocking waste of public money. She personally was vilified.

And no, not the only one who would, in general, support the government. In hindsight there will be many areas they could have done better, some they should have done better but few that would match the furore here and across the media, SM etc.

And other governments across the worlds will have the same levels of error. Please don't say China, Korea etc!

What WILL be different will be the vaccine roll out. It won't be what we are seeing now but, when we get to read the reviews, the enquiries, there will be a slew of new pandemic trade agreements that don't just pay lip service, as did this weeks or the G7. And the UK won't come out of that badly.

Fair enough, even that decision was pilloried apparently. It further supports my point that it is very unusual to think the government have done an overall good job.

I don't quite understand the need for the aggression, especially as I only spoke about my very sick and dead family members, but if it makes you feel good.

‘I think you're quite unusual in your support of the government there. Nobody could argue that the decision to hand the vaccine procurement to an expert who performed an excellent job was a good one. What are the others? ‘

I think you’re rather trivialising the scope and complexity of the vaccine rollout if you think the only decision that made it happen was appointing Kate Bingham.
There must have been a whole slew of good decisions behind the vaccine rollout from the willingness to support vaccine development financially to a huge degree from early on to putting the NHS who know what they are doing in charge rather than handing it to a private company as they did with testing and tracing.

Some people will be miserable whatever happens, they are never happy with anything, and it may be reflection on what is going on in their own lives rather than a general societal issue.

I am no fan of Johnson, especially, but I think they have done a sterling job with the vaccines and his current poll ratings seem to agree with me.

KB would have been briefed and decisions made above that helped success

I wouldn’t narrow it all to one person as much as she is brilliant and made good decisions with a team

I also find the endless political hate somewhat nauseating.

@QuentininQuarantino aggression????

And you aren't the only one with sick or dead relatives. Please don't use that as a stick with which to beat posters who simply disagree with something you wrote!

I agree the public mood will largely be supportive and the left will have a harder time telling stories that people relate to.

You see it in The Guardian and on here to a certain extent. There’s no room for positivity. If I say the scientists here have done a good job someone will call out flag waving and goggles bolleaux

People need a way to move on and talking about the good parts will he needed. If the left, for example, shut that off it’s more difficult.

Personally I haven’t had the vaccine and am late 40s so not out the woods yet. But I’m very glad it’s going well. I also have an issue with diverting as mentioned by pp now as some by age are at risk, and will have bad outcomes.

As for Kate Bingham, newspapers said it should have been someone with healthcare not pharmaceutical experience, she only got the job due to cronyism etc. This is just from November, where apparently her appointment was so egregious that the government should be taken to court: www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/16/covid-19-contracts-cronyism-government-court.
Court case still going on, never mind that these are unpaid positions: www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/28/high-court-to-rule-on-legality-of-covid-contracts-for-pms-chums.

Boris ideally would have locked down 2 weeks earlier last March, certainly should have locked down 1 week earlier and Cheltenham plus Liverpool/ Madrid shouldn't have happened. There's been a lot of criticism about those two weeks.

A year later, with all that's been learned and Macron left cases running at over 20k, watched them climb over 40k through March... While he suggested AZ was "quasi-ineffective" and France didn't need a national lockdown, no.

Hindsight always brings clarity. Sometimes painfully so.

I'd forgotten that court case was still being driven on!

With hindsight 2 out of 3 may not be too bad. And the Good Law Project can just sod off anyway!

It has been painful to watch and read about the pasting Macron has received, with many in France calling him the world's worst virologist.

Arrogance in a pandemic is not a good combination.

Cases are now at almost 60,000 (on Wednesday) Whitty saying they are at least 7-10 days away from the peak. It is going to be grim. Even domestic travel now is off the cards until at least July. So another lost summer and even if the lockdown just lasts to the end of May a 15billion hit to the economy is built in.

I am not sure Macron will look back on his decisions with no Mea Culpa in mind.

The UK made their mistakes earlier in the pandemic, in part due to a total lack of experience, and have since got their act together. Optics at least are more favourable. No government in the world will come out of any pandemic without some regret/lessons to be learnt. The UK can hold on to the fact they got the most important element right: vaccines.

I agree the public mood will largely be supportive and the left will have a harder time telling stories that people relate to

I really do not see it as a left/right issue.

So last year Johnsons popularity was very low, across the spectrum, he was seen as a bumbling dithering fool, even the 'Mail had headline after headline criticising him, along with Hancock & Williamson

But the public are fickle and a successful vaccine roll out sees all that criticism disappear, the 130k deaths forgotten, the xmas and schools fiasco's forgiven.

Aside, i don't think anyone can accuse Starmer as being from the 'left, historically, he is more tory than say Heath but what has happened is the middle ground has moved to the right.

I find the PPE contracts anger the strangest actually. France confiscated pre-ordered masks, some goods arrived from China then Turkey that each turned out to be unsuitable, the whole world were scrapping over plastic aprons and gloves. The brief from government was to try to buy anything that could arrive asap to protect NHS workers, and civil servants did... Then there's an audit questioning the pricing, why the long publishing process wasn't immediately followed... What was important, trying to get equipment quickly or fretting over spending an extra few pounds and following due process? Clear where the government placed priority, and I haven't yet seen anything that would make me think they should have slowed down the purchasing at that time. I know I spent twice as much as normal for hand gels (shared with neighbours) and more than I should have for some masks, plus a large amount on a raft of toilet roll for some care homes (a relative was struggling to source them). No regrets and unclear why there would be. Well, if I were in government I'd be hunting down refunds from the firms who sent useless goods from China and Turkey, but that's all.

@jasjas1973

I agree the public mood will largely be supportive and the left will have a harder time telling stories that people relate to

I really do not see it as a left/right issue.

So last year Johnsons popularity was very low, across the spectrum, he was seen as a bumbling dithering fool, even the 'Mail had headline after headline criticising him, along with Hancock & Williamson

But the public are fickle and a successful vaccine roll out sees all that criticism disappear, the 130k deaths forgotten, the xmas and schools fiasco's forgiven.

Aside, i don't think anyone can accuse Starmer as being from the 'left, historically, he is more tory than say Heath but what has happened is the middle ground has moved to the right.

We’ll see but yes the public mood has changed for now. It may build or move back depending if Starmer can become more relevant.

Time will tell but it’s hard to place him right now.

@MRex

I find the PPE contracts anger the strangest actually. France confiscated pre-ordered masks, some goods arrived from China then Turkey that each turned out to be unsuitable, the whole world were scrapping over plastic aprons and gloves. The brief from government was to try to buy anything that could arrive asap to protect NHS workers, and civil servants did... Then there's an audit questioning the pricing, why the long publishing process wasn't immediately followed... What was important, trying to get equipment quickly or fretting over spending an extra few pounds and following due process? Clear where the government placed priority, and I haven't yet seen anything that would make me think they should have slowed down the purchasing at that time. I know I spent twice as much as normal for hand gels (shared with neighbours) and more than I should have for some masks, plus a large amount on a raft of toilet roll for some care homes (a relative was struggling to source them). No regrets and unclear why there would be. Well, if I were in government I'd be hunting down refunds from the firms who sent useless goods from China and Turkey, but that's all.

I agree with this

Did the audit have an outcome?

Maybe it’s still going

The UK can hold on to the fact they got the most important element right: vaccines

Far too early to say, CV isn't about to disappear and should a variant appear that is immune, we are back to last March :( Vaccines are still in their infancy.

But i agree on Macron, we all (most of us) rightly called out Johnson for not acting sooner after seeing what was happening in europe, Macron ignored what happened in the UK with the UK variant.

@MRex

I find the PPE contracts anger the strangest actually. France confiscated pre-ordered masks, some goods arrived from China then Turkey that each turned out to be unsuitable, the whole world were scrapping over plastic aprons and gloves. The brief from government was to try to buy anything that could arrive asap to protect NHS workers, and civil servants did... Then there's an audit questioning the pricing, why the long publishing process wasn't immediately followed... What was important, trying to get equipment quickly or fretting over spending an extra few pounds and following due process? Clear where the government placed priority, and I haven't yet seen anything that would make me think they should have slowed down the purchasing at that time. I know I spent twice as much as normal for hand gels (shared with neighbours) and more than I should have for some masks, plus a large amount on a raft of toilet roll for some care homes (a relative was struggling to source them). No regrets and unclear why there would be. Well, if I were in government I'd be hunting down refunds from the firms who sent useless goods from China and Turkey, but that's all.

Yep!

The other part of that was the constant criticism of the lack of Pandemic Plan after the previous meetings about it.

What became clear as time went on was that there was a Plan, it was, at it's crudest, Throw Lots of Money At It. Hancock and others said, repeatedly, when asked about PPE and vaccines "We wanted there to be nothing left on the table". Actually, in broad strokes, what they did was pretty much in line with the published plan!