EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

As i said @CuriousaboutSamphire check your sources.

@jasjas1973

because the benefits out weigh the risks maybe? You have more chances of dying or being really ill from Covid, your whole economy has to shut down while you dither on who to give the vaccine to, new variants coming along? There is a long list of benefits to giving out the vaccine to everyone, a very short list of negatives

I’m fine with the approach here from regulatory bodies - there is a cost to delay

Completely agree but i also want constant monitoring especially in any vaccine that have had no long term trials & if there are issues, then there should be transparency, with people fully informed.

I think the MHRA has been transparent and will be constantly monitoring.

The allergy issue was a good example of comms and action taken.

Reading this quickly I don’t see anything amiss? Overall MRHA and JCVI are very good I reckon

www.gponline.com/oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-not-linked-increased-blood-clot-risk-say-eu-uk-regulators/article/1710452

WTF!?!?! Really @jasjas1973

It was reported at the time in a few papers, someone in the Irish government responded. It was posted here, I checked at the time.

I'm off on a history search...

My apologies if that turns out to be correct - which I have no reason to doubt. Fucking journalists! And I thought I was being so careful too!

I've Googled. Found a paywall article that isn't clear and a couple of changed/edited/redacted pieces! Bugger! How they lie... and then backtrack!

I have left myself a PostIt! note - triple check 'known' facts every single fucking time!

I'm checking back through my collection of links, some of which are now not working, have been edited and don't say what I remember them having said when I saved them!

I feel dirty!

This thread is hilarious 😂

??? OK! Insightful, illumminating post there! THanks!

@jasjas1973 ok that my have been wrong in the papers. It still doesn’t explain the EU’s irrational behaviour 🤷‍♀️

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/01/covid-vaccine-scheme-unacceptably-slow-in-europe-says-who

This is more frightening , puts into question why European countries are looking at Russian vaccines?

www.politico.com/news/2021/03/31/pentagon-russia-aggression-eastern-europe-478773

"France is doing better, but still has nearly 1/3 (900k) of its AZ doses hanging around."

At the increased rate of 350,000 to 400,000 jabs per day that 'stockpile' is likely to diminish fairly swiftly

The European Union has asked India to allow it to buy 10m doses of AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine from the Serum Institute of India, a government official told Reuters, the latest sign of growing pressure on Delhi to export more of its production to other countries.

The EU wants the doses from Serum, the world’s largest vaccine-maker, to offset supply shortfalls from AstraZeneca’s European plants and speed up the bloc’s vaccine roll-out.

Any quick approval of the EU request is unlikely, however, with India scrambling to expand its own domestic vaccination drive, said the Indian government official, who asked not to be named as the discussions are private.

Britain is also pressuring India to export the second half of 10m doses it had ordered from Serum, the source said.

Thought india had also an export ban....

@LimitIsUp

"France is doing better, but still has nearly 1/3 (900k) of its AZ doses hanging around."

At the increased rate of 350,000 to 400,000 jabs per day that 'stockpile' is likely to diminish fairly swiftly

Given the supply issue, perhaps is it wise to keep a few in the fridge for a second dose?

France is using the AZ, as is evidenced by the many datasites. It doesn't matter how many times people here post that we are confused and antivax in France, the main issue at the moment is supply.

What is the equivalent of the EU Covid Tracker or the French one in the UK? Is there the same transparency around the % of vaccines received and administered that we can look at?

It wasn't phrased as a ban... there was one of the usual gearing up issues that slowed down production and the Indian government said they would take preferential delivery due to their infection rates.

They had the same preferential clause/penalty clause with AZ as the UK did!

I think the order of preference puts India first and the UK 3rd or 4th or lower on the list - India was not originally part of the UK supply list just as it was not part if the EU/Europe list.

It wasn't a surprise. Which was why the UK government didn't make a fuss. It took Hancock 2 days to confirm the reason behind the delay... he was far more respectful of the privacy around the ongoing talks than the EU have been!

What is the equivalent of the EU Covid Tracker or the French one in the UK? Is there the same transparency around the % of vaccines received and administered that we can look at? Nope! I think I remember Sturgeon getting a shot across her bows when she said she knew and would happily tell the EU confidential vaccine data in January!

It is pretty fucking unbelievable to the EU are scrapping around for vaccines in India that they don't even want!!

WTAF is wrong with them?!

Pressurising India now for more vaccines, literally taking a begging bowl around the whole world pleading for vaccines that many Europeans are simply refusing or not even allowed to have! Why not go for another vaccine ffs? We have plenty to choose from. It is making them look totally deranged.

Sorry to get so animated, but it is scaring the living crap out of me that they are literally doing one thing, saying another meanwhile trying to get more doses through the back door. THIS IS NOT NORMAL, this is so fucked up as to be truly bloody rattling.

I really want the EU to get their shit together, so we can get back on even keel, go back to normal diplomatic ties of friendship - and have some degree of reasoned thinking back again.

God knows what the rest of the world is thinking...

This is how four major European countries feel about AZ:

In the four continental European countries studied in both the February and March surveys – France, Germany, Spain and Italy – people are more likely to see the vaccine as unsafe than safe.

In each case this represents a substantial decline in perceived safety. In our previous survey in Germany, 43% said they believed the vaccine to be safe, compared to 40% who considered it unsafe. As of now, a majority of Germans think the vaccine is unsafe (55%) and just a third think it safe (32%).

n France, where people had already considered the vaccine unsafe (43%) than safe (33%), those figures have now worsened to 61% unsafe and 23% safe.

In Italy and Spain, most people had previously felt that the AstraZeneca vaccine was safe (54% and 59% respectively). Since then those numbers have fallen to 36% and 38% - in both cases lower than the proportion who feel the vaccine is unsafe.

Only in Britain can the blood clots story be considered to have little to no impact, with the vast majority still considering the vaccine safe, at 77% (down 4pts from February, and still on a par with Pfizer’s 79% safe rating).

Surely the 'Elite' task force in the EU should focus on more supply from Moderna or other vaccine suppliers, rather than trying to unpick the damage they have caused themselves to trust in AZ.

Flogging a dead horse surely, an epic waste of time (which is extremely precious, given the urgency of the third wave) and resources chasing AZ from all four corners of the world.

yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2021/03/22/europeans-now-see-astrazeneca-vaccine-unsafe-follo

In fairness to the EU the next wave will hit some countries that will alter views. Six months ago the idea of vaccine queue jumpers or anxiety for slight delays in getting the vaccine would probably been laughed at. I have friends and family who have lied to get their vaccine, some who worked last year now scared to go back without a vaccine. Knowing and seeing younger people becoming very ill or worse was harder this time.

I think the 3rd wave here changed a lot of people’s minds, I have to say I was sceptical of any vaccine as they came out so quick but as the data came in I was less worried even with all the stories in Europe of blood clots. What scared me the most is when the hospitals were overwhelmed and couldn’t cope as you’d daren’t get sick from anything.

I’ve to say that being Spanish everyone I know in Spain wants a vaccine , they don’t care which one they get. So whilst many might be refusing it, many others would still want it and haven’t had the call yet. My mum is 62 and she should be called soon for az but hasn’t still

Just catching up.

Yesterday I said we dident have enough pharmaceutical manufacturing industry to match Europe and currently become vaccine self sufficient..
However in theory the eu currently is not exactly producing enough either meet thier domestic demand.
Even if they blocked all az from both uk factories would not be enough combined with some member states paused, some age restrictions both go against EMA not to mention confidence in it has gone down with lots eu citizens so az is not the answer to all of eu woes.
They don't seem to grasp neither UK or eu have received the levels of az they ordered or expected..
They don't seem grasp countries don't make and own vaccines private companies do and those private companies make contacts with clients ie 3rd countries and the eu may not be privy to the terms each company made.
All the vaccines are privately owned.
Some countries may have invested but they not even shareholders in these vaccine firms..
The pharmaceutical terms are independent of government.
When dragi says he wants to suffocate big pharma you do wonder why do firms set up in the block as risk to them breaching contracts made with other countries is now great.
Could Australia' take AZ to court.

Its all a bit of a mess.
We don't have that much pfizer outstanding think we ordered 40million and received 20 so far according to udvl.
I bet they wish they had set up in UK now.
They done deal with Sanofi to make additional pfizer in thier facilities not sure how long for.
I wonder if glaxo and Sanofi are close to rolling out thier joint effort.

Why can't we realise if you rude, shout and attack doesn't make the shortfall vaccines appear any time soon does it.
I don't know why moderna delivered to EU first as we signed contract first but the UK has not kicked off about it.

Surly they realised by now vaccine manufacturering is complex and all brands of vaccines struggled with low yeilds? Slow start, revised downwards orders and late delivery thats not unique to az.
Least thye have extra 10million pfizer .
Plus all the az however much eu factories managed to produce.
If they contacted serum institute maybe Johnson and Johnson is more delayed than we thought.
How will India deliver 10million to them but not 5million to UK.

We have macron and the vaccine man making veiled threats like we dependent on the block and our vaccination schedule will slow down

We helped fund ,set up and support halix.
They are stealing what we rightfully ordered and paid for and possibly other countries .

They are how not to make freinds and alienate people

None of what they doing mainly attacking uk will get them out of immediate predicaments they in.

Would contract from serum be separated from az contract as its the same vaccine.

The new variant is so infectious, and we nearly lost a family member 42 years old and very fit - so it does change your view about what this virus can do. The winter here was horrendous. So for sure the indulgence about vaccines may well disappear when they are faced with what we have already been through?

Abit like drowning out at sea and questioning whether the life boat sent has wifi or not.

Still why not go for a vaccine that your people have total confidence in? Why continue with a vaccine that has such a creditability deficit?

It makes no sense to me.

They were never prepared to negotiate.
Now EMA authorised the Netherlands halix plant they say all thier.
The sun says they turned down Oxfordshire request of 8.5 million and the UK has investors 21 million on the halix plant and now we can't get any vaccines from there.
UK I feel has to respond just not sure how

www.thesun.co.uk/news/14522815/eu-chief-warns-britain-zero-astrazeneca-jabs/

The Sun has a massive agenda vs the EU though. Not sure you can ever assume anything about the EU in the Sun is totally fair/true!

Sometimes there is a particulalrly invidious "Fuck you you colonialist Brit" vibe around here. See above taking pot shots because of the shorthand way of describing AZ - "Oh no, it was a multi national team, it is not a British anything" yet happily saying "The Kent Variant" as a slur, when we all know it could have come from anywheer, just as the SA, Brazil etc variants.

That isn't what it about at all. Much like most of the witterings on these threads you don't understand what people are saying because you are viewing it all through a British lens rather than a more global or even European lens. A lot of things on these threads are not in context of what people are thinking and feeling in the EU and without that context they come across as rather batshit and flag waving to people who are in the EU.

I'm not sure about now because I only quickly scan these threads because I don't have a tinfoil hat but at the start there was a vibe that the EUs problem with AZ were nothing to do with their underdelivering, their bad reporting on trials and the possibility of side effects and everything to do with the fact that it is a 'British vaccine' when that clearly wasn't the case as nobody but Brits actually think of it that way.

Call it what you want but that has nothing to do with why so many other countries are viewing the AZ vaccine with caution.

And saying the Kent variant is no more a slur than saying the Brazilian variant or SA variant. Nobody cares where it actually came from, it is just a well recognised way of distinguishing between variants. Just like nobody really cares where the AZ vaccine came from. Again that British lens changes how you are seeing things vs how everyone else sees things.

the EUs problem with AZ were nothing to do with their underdelivering, their bad reporting on trials and the possibility of side effects

Yes we get that narrative over here from EU spokespeople.

So we’ll have someone very frustrated that they don’t have doses - but how much is slower EU production the issue?

Also claims data is bad but EMA have approved so either approve it don’t, but going on about this after approving is strange.

Side effects - we know about these and the benefit of no delay has been weighed up here.

Yes Kitty. I'm sure that all makes sense... But I was talking about posters here. Not the world stage, just posters here, across Mumsnet. Just Mumsnet. You see?

I'm not such a Little Englander to think the world cares more about us than we do about them. I have friends and family in 3 or 4 European countries, some vaccinated some still waiting, all over 65 years old. I am not oblivious to the differences in reportage.

😊