Page 15 | EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

Baileysforchristmas · 01/04/2021 12:00

@NewYearNewTwatName it’s the confusing messages, first it was over 65’s now it’s under 55’s, I wouldn’t know who it is safe for if I was in Germany. All I know is the data from the UK nearly 20 million people, under 50 people have been severely ill, it’s illogical behaviour from Germany and France even the EMA have said the benefits out weigh the risks 🤷‍♀️

jasjas1973 · 01/04/2021 12:09

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@NewYearNewTwatName it’s the confusing messages, first it was over 65’s now it’s under 55’s, I wouldn’t know who it is safe for if I was in Germany. All I know is the data from the UK nearly 20 million people, under 50 people have been severely ill, it’s illogical behaviour from Germany and France even the EMA have said the benefits out weigh the risks 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
EMA is issuing a new guidance statement next week.

The UK first said they'd had no cases of rare blood clotting, then said they'd been 5 once they had a look.

I ve no issue with AZ whatsoever, based on all the available evidence, however IF other countries have evidence to the contrary, then why on earth wouldn't you want that enacted upon?

Baileysforchristmas · 01/04/2021 12:13

@jasjas1973 because the benefits out weigh the risks maybe? You have more chances of dying or being really ill from Covid, your whole economy has to shut down while you dither on who to give the vaccine to, new variants coming along? There is a long list of benefits to giving out the vaccine to everyone, a very short list of negatives.

yellowspanner · 01/04/2021 12:23

The mess up with vaccinations in the EU lies firmly at the various doors in the EU.
But because they have messed up they want to stop export of the vaccines to the UK even though these vaccines are fulfilling a legally binding contract. They are making the companies break contract law just because they got it wrong.
And they don't even like the O/AZ vaccine.
They just want us to have it.
Shame on them.

GibbsGibbsGibbs · 01/04/2021 12:27

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@NewYearNewTwatName it’s the confusing messages, first it was over 65’s now it’s under 55’s, I wouldn’t know who it is safe for if I was in Germany. All I know is the data from the UK nearly 20 million people, under 50 people have been severely ill, it’s illogical behaviour from Germany and France even the EMA have said the benefits out weigh the risks 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
Well, luckily the people in Germany seem to be less easily confused than you because to me it's very clear:

This is a new vaccine, so of course while it's being rolled out on a large scale, new information comes to light. Why would you just ignore that and not act on it?
Yes, the benefits outweigh the risks - but why should anybody take any unnecessary risks?

If the choice were to use AZ or have no vaccination, the obvious answer would be AZ.
If the choice is to use AZ or Pfizer and there is a possibility that the risk for a certain group is higher with AZ, the obvious answer is using Pfizer for that group. Therefore, Pfizer is being used for younger people and AZ for older people while the concern is being investigated.

As AZ hasn't come close to meeting it's delivery targets, less than a quarter of the vaccine doses delivered in Germany so far have been AZ, so there is no risk of anything going to waste.

DdraigGoch · 01/04/2021 12:39

If they had, would the UK have got such good supply? there appears to be a bottle neck on how much vaccine can produced atm.
@jasjas1973 vaccine supply isn't a finite resource. You can manufacture as many or as few vaccines as you are prepared to pay for. The issue though is that it takes time and money to ramp up production. With billions of doses needed worldwide, pharmaceutical firms don't have the sort of capital available to invest in a ramp-up of this scale, governments needed to step in and provide money upfront, the earlier the better. If the EU had done as the UK did and started funding the ramp-ups way back in May(?), there would be more vaccines all around.

LimitIsUp · 01/04/2021 12:42

The Guardian is reporting that France is doing rather better with vaccinations (good to see - I am sure this also includes using AZ doses for older citizens). I think we might need to drop the narrative of EU countries sitting on doses - they most definitely have been doing that, but the rise in infections seems to have focussed minds and I don't think that unused doses gathering dust will be the case going forward.

"France’s vaccination drive was “the way out of the crisis” and would be accelerated over the coming days and weeks, the president said, with all those over 60 becoming eligible by 16 April and the over-50s from mid-May.

After a dismally slow start, mainly as a result of a shortage of doses, France’s rollout has picked up pace, with 350,000-400,000 shots a day now being administered and the country on course to meet its targets of vaccinating 20 million people by 15 May and 30 million – roughly half the population – by mid-June."

The Guardian also reports that in Italy vaccination has been made mandatory for health care workers in a push back against vaccine scepticism.

In Poland they are offering vaccines to under 40's due to poor take up in older age groups

Outside the EU Sweden has had to slip its timescales so that now all adults will be offered their first dose by mid August - this is due to insufficient vaccine supplies.

In the USA a large batch of Johnson and johnson vaccine has had to be scrapped based on not meeting the safety / quality criteria

Quite an interesting and wide ranging covid round up in the Guardian - I think I'll be reading it as a counterpoint to the Times

NewYearNewTwatName · 01/04/2021 12:52

Baileysforchristmas

sorry I'm not sure what you were addressing to me?

I've only posted general info links today, and mused on if UK actually does need something from the Helix plant, which EU are looking at blocking.

FourTeaFallOut · 01/04/2021 12:53

In the USA a large batch of Johnson and johnson vaccine has had to be scrapped based on not meeting the safety / quality criteria

I read that, it was 15 million doses.

DdraigGoch · 01/04/2021 12:57

@sashagabadon

Personally I think the EU were slow due to combination of factors primarily having to keep 27 countries happy but also complacency ( we are a big manufacturer of vaccines, vaccine companies will therefore prioritise us ; we also have strength in numbers, vaccine companies will be desperate for our business) Maybe “naivety” could be included if you look to the Commission seeming to think you just order vaccines and they arrive, with no consideration of what a tricky thing they are to produce and yields can vary. And also naivety with regards supply chains too. And also betting on the wrong vaccines in particular Sanofi ( although that could have paid more off and the situation would be much better if it had)

Who was responsible for the European joint procurement scheme? Kate Bingham has huge amounts of experience both in business and in pharmaceuticals which obviously helped make the right decisions. Who was in the equivalent role in the EU?

On the subject of Sanofi, it's important to note that no one had any idea which vaccines would be successful. That's why the UK spread orders around numerous manufacturers (Sanofi included) with enough orders in total to fully vaccinate the entire population several times over. Hedging one's bets. I understand that the EU didn't do this to the same scale.

Baileysforchristmas · 01/04/2021 13:05

@NewYearNewTwatName sorry wrong person

Itsalonghaul · 01/04/2021 13:11

the hows and whys this is happening is for another day, europe faces a catastrophe, lets pull together and limit this loss of life, even if our contribution will be small, it will matter very much to a family in Europe

For once we entirely agree jas I DO actually think we should help those in Europe, but it is hard to see how with so many countries publicly rejecting AZ and so many sitting unused in fridges already. With the best will in the world how would you expect the British gov to sell that? You won't have your vaccine dear British voter, we will send it over the channel where it will languish in a fridge and probably be thrown out.

Had the commission approached the UK in a diplomatic way to agree vaccine sharing I think it would have been a different story, but that didn't happen. VDL threatened and really behaved despicably towards the UK - using unethical threats against Ireland and NI. It was, and still is really unacceptable.

As much as I think the UK would LIKE to help, to keep things friendly, the EU commission in practice has made it really hard.

Baileysforchristmas · 01/04/2021 13:17

@GibbsGibbsGibbs if you are in Germany can you tell me how true the below article is?

Especially this bit

Without using GPs, each German state has had to build its own system for finding the right people in the right age groups for a jab appointment, with some inviting patients by letter, while others rely on being contacted via overburdened hotlines and creaky online portals. In Lower Saxony, authorities used post office records to seek out candidates for the first round of jabs, guessing people’s ages on the basis of their first names.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/27/heroes-to-zeros-how-german-efficiency-wrecked-its-covid-vaccine-drive

Itsalonghaul · 01/04/2021 13:27

gibbs I find your post interesting when considering how Germany may balance risk versus gain in regards to vaccine. Of course we are all very fortunate to have many vaccines that are successful. However you are leading us to believe with your post to suggest that Pjizer is 100% safe and other vaccines are not, and I simply can not agree with you.

It is not between the 100% safety of Pjizer versus a small risk with AZ/other vaccines. That is very misleading to put it mildly.

Pjizer is a brand new vaccine, it has never ever been used before. Without straying into fuelling fears around vaccines. We have absolutely NO idea what Pjizer will do to humans in 5,10 or 50 years time. It is truly novice using mRNA.
Quite frankly if I were German I would be more worried about this element, particularly for those of child bearing age - perhaps more so than an AZ vaccine that has trialled and tested for years and years, and uses components that are natural and known.

So you see all vaccines come with element of risk, it does not matter how big or small - or your personal chances of having something unfortunate happen.

The fact is that the so called clotting has not even been proved yet, so all of this is very premature.

I would be very careful about describing anything as safe or not safe. It is in fact in some cases, far too early to say.

AZ have rolled out now tens of millions of vaccines, and I am not wishing to defend their record, it is not my job, but the facts and stats speak for themselves now.

The vaccine roll out has been utterly ruined in Europe, over a 'risk' that has not even been proved. And as a result - tens of thousands of people will die from covid, and covid related clots and live with life changing disability even if they do survive - for us, in the UK it makes no sense whatsoever.

MRex · 01/04/2021 13:33

@LimitIsUp