EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

[quote AnchorAmore]@CuriousaboutSamphire hi thanks for the article. I read it but couldn’t see it saying anything about how the EU hate the U.K. and hate when the U.K. does well at anything without them.

Also the U.K. have not exported any vaccines so what was incorrect in what she said?[/quote]
You are being obtuse! Read what I wrote!

You are gathering the output of some posters and impugning their opinions to all posters, to me. Engage more honestly, it'll be more fun, more infomtative and wil probably reduce your blood pressure.

We all need vaccination. Anything that slows that down MUST be questioned.

Do you think it was naivety or greed and arrogance?

@CuriousaboutSamphire I’m sorry I did not mean to direct personally to you. It’s many of the posts on this thread that come across as nothing more than taking the opportunity to bash the EU.

The crux of the matter for me is, regardless of what any contracts say, when U.K. supply of AZ goes down will the public commentary and posters here say that is due primarily to India stopping exports of a huge number of vaccines and only to a much smaller level by any EU export ban. Which is factually correct. Or will the rhetoric
be that it’s all the EU fault as they stole all the U.K. vaccines in an attempt to sabotage us. Which is not true.

Unfortunately given all I’ve read here it seems like it will be the latter.

The 'UK' (or more accurately the private companies which operate here) has exported the lipids that help make Pfizer and the temperature sensors. The UK has also helped set up the supply chains in the EU and invested a lot more money than the EU. The EU, as an entity has exported nothing to us - the UK has received the goods (again from private companies that operate from within EU borders) that it ordered and paid for!
This is about all countries adhering to the contracts signed.

@AnchorAmore I don’t think what the EU are doing will slow down our rollout, I think it will harm the EU much more, that’s why I can’t understand why they are making the decisions they are? I’m trying to understand what they are trying to achieve? Even if they had all the vaccines made in the UK it wouldn’t make that much difference as we produce such a small amount? Why aren’t Germany and France trying to promote AZ instead of constantly undermining it? The risks even if found related to the vaccine are tiny and out weigh the risk from coronvirus, none of it makes sense 🤷‍♀️

The crux of the matter for me is, regardless of what any contracts say, when U.K. supply of AZ goes down will the public commentary and posters here say that is due primarily to India stopping exports of a huge number of vaccines and only to a much smaller level by any EU export ban. Which is factually correct. Or will the rhetoric
be that it’s all the EU fault as they stole all the U.K. vaccines in an attempt to sabotage us. Which is not true.

You are concentrating on the most negative f posts though! What about all the ones that don't say that; that do post information, discuss, debate, disagree with data?

I do notice them, but unless they post something that is utterly clueless, may lead to someone fearing the vaccine, is pure disinformation, I just ignore them! There are plenty of people with odd perspectives, kneejerk reactions, angry, scared posts. And yes, quite a few who seem to blame the EU for the sky being blue!

But they can be challenged and, when you get tired f it, ignored. Seek out the sane amongst the crazies - it ends up being more fun, more informative and far, far less anger inducing

Personally I think the EU were slow due to combination of factors primarily having to keep 27 countries happy but also complacency ( we are a big manufacturer of vaccines, vaccine companies will therefore prioritise us ; we also have strength in numbers, vaccine companies will be desperate for our business)
Maybe “naivety” could be included if you look to the Commission seeming to think you just order vaccines and they arrive, with no consideration of what a tricky thing they are to produce and yields can vary. And also naivety with regards supply chains too.
And also betting on the wrong vaccines in particular Sanofi ( although that could have paid more off and the situation would be much better if it had)

Macron had said that the EU had been slow off the ground to vaccinate because there was no real hope that the vaccines could be produced and approved so quickly.

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-emmanuel-macron-says-the-eu-failed-to-shoot-for-the-stars-over-vaccine-rollouts-12256479

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@jasjas1973 so the EU did not secure the right contract in their naivety? So do you think banning exports or export control is going to help deliver more vaccines to the EU?[/quote]
I think the EU spent too much time arguing on price and liability and not enough on exclusive supply.

I can't answer the export ban question but it does seem logical to vaccinate ones own populations, when infections rates are dramatically increasing, ahead of sending vaccines abroad.

would you support the UK exporting vaccine right now?

would you support the UK exporting vaccine right now?

If we were contracted to export doses then that's the priority of the private company that produced the doses.

So they projected their monolithic sluggishness onto the vaccine industry?

I still think it was arrogance of assuming they're a huge consumer as a bloc and used to getting their own way and being pursued and greed with too long spent haggling over product prices rather than just handing over cash for R&D with a quick agreement saying the investment would allow you priority purchasing if it works out.

I don't believe in mega states and huge trading blocks that can leverage their collective size and spending power and hold giant sway over world markets and politics and policy. I also don't believe in the centralisation of power further and further away from stakeholders as I believe people are poorly served under those models.

These are key reasons I wanted to leave the EU in light of the 'ever closer' goal and they are factors that have fed into the EU doing so appallingly at vaccine development and procurement. I wonder if it also leaves citizens unable to know who to blame and direct their wrath at - pretty ineffective being on a greek island and directing your angst at Brussels

I don't believe in mega corporations having that much power either by the way. Hence ending up at the position that the nation state is the lesser evil of the alternatives in terms of protecting people.

@FourTeaFallOut

Macron had said that the EU had been slow off the ground to vaccinate because there was no real hope that the vaccines could be produced and approved so quickly.

Well, he would say that wouldn't he? individual countries responsibility to roll out vaccinations, not the EU.

He and others need to accept responsibility, even on procurement, he and others agreed the strategy.

@jasjas1973 yes if we produced enough but our vaccine output is tiny compared to the EU, India and USA, so it wouldn’t be viable at the moment hopefully in the future.

Pfizer are expanding in EU and also bringing the manufacturing of their 'active substance' within the EU.

Moderna also expanding.

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/increase-vaccine-manufacturing-capacity-supply-covid-19-vaccines-astrazeneca-biontechpfizer-moderna

Thing that has niggles me about Helix is although uk haven't really had any vaccines from there have uk being getting an ingredient from there that is vital to UK AZ manufacturing?

@MoChridhe

I just watched a piece on France 24 about Gibraltar. Over 90% of the population vaccinated. No new infections reported for many weeks now. They are now offering jabs to Spanish workers.

As far as I know the UK provided the vaccines to Gibraltar.

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@jasjas1973 yes if we produced enough but our vaccine output is tiny compared to the EU, India and USA, so it wouldn’t be viable at the moment hopefully in the future.[/quote]
...but we expect the EU to allow exports even though they are miles behind the UK & facing 10s of '000s of avoidable deaths.

the hows and whys this is happening is for another day, europe faces a catastrophe, lets pull together and limit this loss of life, even if our contribution will be small, it will matter very much to a family in Europe.

I'd inc any other country facing this too, such as Brazil but this is a thread about the EU/UK.

As far as I know the UK provided the vaccines to Gibraltar

...and so it bloody well should, its a British Overseas Territory, as its economy relies on Spanish workers, it also has to vaccinate these too, for its own self interest, if nothing else.

[quote mumsneedwine]@AnchorAmore great that your country is using it all up. Germany and France are not - its sitting in fridges. So they could give it to your country but strangely they don't. Why ?[/quote]
..Walk back into the room/thread and see utter BS like that..it makes me cry at the some of the low info stuff around here (again) being dressed up as the truth..being charitable I'll just assume it's the product of Tory party HQ or the Daily Mail, rather than a deliberate attempt to spread disinformation.

Fact check: France has administered over 2.2 million doses of AZ at cease work 29 March and continues to administer the vaccine.

covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/

Other independent sources available.

@jasjas1973 that would be fine if France and Germany hadn’t said it was unsafe, why would we hand over our vaccines to countries who think it’s unsafe and won’t use it? I know other countries have said the same but they aren’t asking for the uK to hand over the vaccines. That’s what’s confusing, the confusing messages.

The U.K. has supplied all the BTO’s including Gibraltar and they are vaccinating Spanish citizens that work there. They are pretty much done now, take up very high. They are delighted and grateful to the U.K.. I have Gibraltar colleagues and they tell me all the news!

@Baileysforchristmas
Germany has not said that AZ is unsafe or stopped using it.
Germany is investigating the possibility that there MIGHT be more dangerous side effects in younger women. So while they are investigating, they are giving AZ only to other groups for the time being.
Since there are (unfortunately) still lots of unvaccinated over 60 year olds in Germany, there is plenty of demand, so nothing is going to waste.

www.pfizer.co.uk/pfizer-uk

Our packaging and distribution site in Havant manages cold chain packaging and supply, providing temperature sensitive vaccines and injectable medicines that are distributed around the world. In 2019 the site packed in excess of 68 million doses and is anticipated to pack in excess of 20 million doses in 2020 before a transition to Puurs, Belgium in October 2020

its looks like if Pfizer wanted to manufacture and distributed from UK(I personally don't think it will) it might not be too difficult for it to do.

pfizer has accused the European Union of hampering its Covid vaccine production.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/01/pfizer-boss-accuses-eu-hampering-covid-vaccine-rollout/