EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 3

[EasterIssland]

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4200959-EU-threaten-to-cut-off-vaccine-supply-to-the-UK-2?pg=1

Yes, as far as I can see it's 1 million in total.

Would be good now to hear someone say how many components for Pfizer have shipped from UK to the EU.

But the whole "It's finished here so it is ours" is a very dangerous long term strategy. There are now at least 19 countries looking at the EU, and some of the individual countries, and wondering how to deal with them in future!

Whatever you personal politics and perspectives on this it is not a comfortable 'race' we are all being forced to join. It's just stupid! Utterly bereft of logic.

And fuck off with British this, Oxford that! The whole point was that it was the vaccine that was developed here in a multi national team supported here, with lots of support and money from the UK government, the UK taxpayer and we all supported its being sold on at cost! OF COURSE WE ARE PROUD OF THAT EFFORT!

I am sick to death of n ot being able to say I am Britosh or English and prod of that. Bollocks to that!

@TheHoneyBadger - it’s not really top news here. Tbh anyone who’s wanted a vaccine for age or work or health reasons seems to have easily got one so I don’t think people in country are that concerned. Total population of Austria is less than 9mill. I think 7mill ish are over 16. Of those 7mill, 1.5 have been vaccinated I think. So yes 5.5mill still unvaccinated, but that’s mainly ‘average adults’ I think with no health issues or work requirements who don’t really seem that eager to have it.
People here are a lot more dubious of governments and of anything new.

It’s been a lot more open and unrestricted here in Austria also. We have had several lockdowns and closures, and Vienna and Tirol now in another 10 day lockdown over Easter. However schools have been fully open for several months now, and were fairly full beforehand. Shops have been open a while. I had a baby last year and the hospitals were fine with dh coming in. Mixing with up to 4 has been allowed several months already.

So numbers in Europe are increasing, but people have been mixing far more for months so that’s a by product of that. I imagine uk will increase again in a few months when they start opening up the same

@CuriousaboutSamphire There are now at least 19 countries looking at the EU, and some of the individual countries, and wondering how to deal with them in future!

Have you got a source for that or just more made up hysteria on this thread?

Novavax might be able to contribute to the roll out in as little a month. We already know that they are in production so hopefully that will hit the ground running. We have several million Pfizer doses to use between now and then plus home grown az. Losing doses will slow us down but I don't think it will be a game changer.

Then we have the VMIC in Oxford and the Essex plant coming in to action ready for autumn, I think. Is that right?

The rules oblige manufacturers to seek Brussels' approval before exporting every parcel of jabs, which has caused "a significant administrative burden and some uncertainty", said Danny Hendrikse, the pharmaceutical giant's vice-president of global supply.

This doesn’t sound good on any level. Do people not in UK think it does?

Curious haha yes feel free to say something good about any country bar U.K. on here. Sod that.

Thanks @notimagain.

2m/wk AZ + say 9m Pfizer still to give out + 5m AZ coming from India + 7m Moderna = 29m by end of April, 37m by end of May, 41m by mid June.
Janssen and Novovax on the way. 10m more Moderna and 20m more Pfizer hoped for.
4.1m are double vaccinated.
26.8m to get a second dose in the period running to mid June.
21.3% of population are under 18, 66.8m people, so 52.6m adults. 20.7m still to have a first dose.
By end of May - say 22m have second dose and 4.8m still to get it.
15m of the 20.7m can have a first dose. With expected take-up, we already vaccinated every adult.
Next steps - 19.8m more second doses through June/July unless some were Janssen and don't need it.

Looks like we're on track to me?

If EU don't want AZ what justification do they give for not sending it to UK so it's not wasted ? Please someone explain. Or is it just spite.

@MarshaBradyo

The rules oblige manufacturers to seek Brussels' approval before exporting every parcel of jabs, which has caused "a significant administrative burden and some uncertainty", said Danny Hendrikse, the pharmaceutical giant's vice-president of global supply.

This doesn’t sound good on any level. Do people not in UK think it does?

I think late changes would be a bigger issue for Pfizer than the others and logistics do create a real headache. Managing the cold chain to transfer Pfizer is no small feat and not cheap; doing that when dose amounts M, N and O might not be going to place A, B, C as expected but instead being asked halfway through the packaging process to split into P, Q, R, S and T to go to a different range of places... It would be a pain for any vaccine manufacturers who don't have to keep doses ultra cold... But Pfizer do and that increases complexity and risk of wasted doses significantly.

@mumsneedwine

If EU don't want AZ what justification do they give for not sending it to UK so it's not wasted ? Please someone explain. Or is it just spite.

That's the thing - rationally it makes no sense which only leaves irrational spite.

Oh and yay for people accusing women of hysteria. So progressive

@Itsalonghaul

Jas is a british expat based in Spain, she has had the AZ vaccine and so have all of her family as per last thread.

Lol i wish. You just write the first thing that comes into your head... don't you?

I can categorically deny almost all of your latest imaginations.

Imagine as well the added time and paperwork and man hours involved in having to apply to Brussels and get permission for every expo? It's so burdensome and longwinded in a context where expediency is needed.

It does sound more like something a dictatorship would do than a democratic country that wants to be a part of global markets and supply chains. How can you even confidently manufacture without knowing if you're going to be allowed to export and how could you enter into contracts and be a feasible global business if you don't know if you're going to be blocked from fulfilling contracts and let down customers?

It's nuts.

@mumsneedwine

If EU don't want AZ what justification do they give for not sending it to UK so it's not wasted ? Please someone explain. Or is it just spite.

Send it to covax. To be honest other countries in the world need it more than the uk at the moment as well so I’m not opposed to that

@mumsneedwine it’s looking more and more likely that it’s spite, why I don’t know, we’re such a small little island, even if we gave them all our vaccines here it wouldn’t make the much difference to the EU rollout as we produce such a small amount, I never thought the EU would behave like this, it makes no sense.

[quote AnchorAmore]**@CuriousaboutSamphire* There are now at least 19 countries looking at the EU, and some of the individual countries, and wondering how to deal with them in future!*

Have you got a source for that or just more made up hysteria on this thread?[/quote]
Hysteria?

No, it was an opinion derived from a few interviews with people like Pfizer representatives, some EU officials, spokespeople from various governments around the world. All easily available via Google, listening to various radio stations and generally keeping your eys and ears open to the news.

Hysteria? Really? My uterus has taken over my ability to think? Pshaw!

Send it to covax. To be honest other countries in the world need it more than the uk at the moment as well so I’m not opposed to that

From their pov that’s unethical though. If they’re questioning the vaccines safety they can’t offload it to someone as ‘good enough for them’. It’s like donating out of date food to a food bank.

Unless they identify certain groups at risk formally or confirm it’s safety in which case they’ll have use for them theirs selves. If it does go that way then it’s a massive waste of a currently very precious resource.

Posted elsewhere by mistake. Ability to add self as a carer has gone from the NHS booking site as of today (I check on occasion for when DH becomes eligible...).
BBC says 85% of 50-55 now done, so we should expect 40-49 to finally open soon. (Also random number generation on self isolating with dubious methodology included in the article.)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56598217

That's really sad, I know so many who are unpaid carers, many of whom still haven't got a jab. But given the attitude of some, as evidenced by a now banned poster here, I suppose it was inevitable!

@CuriousaboutSamphire Why don't you feel you can say you are proud to be British/English etc?

I certainly was at the 2012 Olympics or the uk's vaccine roll out for example.... am i proud of food banks, the track and test system or the UKs death rates esp in Care homes? No.

Why can't you be proud of the collaboration between the Jenner institute, the UK Govt and AstraZ?

I am, i think the AZ/OX vaccine shows exactly what can be achieved with international cooperation, as the head of the Jenner said last July - without the monies from the UK govt, they would n't have been able to develop the vaccine from their earlier SARS work BUT he also said that EU funds over the last 5 years enabled them to do this work, whilst still being able to carry on research into many other vaccines.... often ignored by many in the UK.

@CuriousaboutSamphire ah so you made it up then! Of course!

@mumsneedwine why are you saying the EU aren’t using AZ? Again you are all just making things up!!!’ In my EU country all supplies of AZ are used up as soon as they arrive and AZ have not supplied the amount they said they would so it’s even more in demand.

@EasterIssland do even though we have paid for it and it is contractually ours the EU would rather give it to anyone else but UK. Just remember EU that boosters will be needed. And if you want the technology to produce these you'll have to ask for it. Because I can't see any company giving it freely now.

@jasjas1973 sometimes there is a particulalrly invidious "Fuck you you colonialist Brit" vibe around here. See above taking pot shots because of the shorthand way of describing AZ - "Oh no, it was a multi national team, it is not a British anything" yet happily saying "The Kent Variant" as a slur, when we all know it could have come from anywheer, just as the SA, Brazil etc variants.

As you said, the international cooperation in developing this vaccine, many others, genome sequencing, the component parts being shipped out across the world, etc etc, is al a bloody brilliant effort and SHOULD be celebrated LOUDLY!

I am not ignoring the others involved, I never have. But even your post ends with a chastisement for being British - "often ignored by many in the UK."

Like many others I am not ignoring anything, just trying to say "Look what we did" and be proud of it!

@AnchorAmore great that your country is using it all up. Germany and France are not - its sitting in fridges. So they could give it to your country but strangely they don't. Why ?

@AnchorAmore what, my opinion? Yes! That's what you do. It's usually better when you have read a lot and have some inforation to base it upon - like the multi national efforts that go into all vaccine production.

As for not using AZ - I think many are referring to the stock levels, the possibility of stock going out of date, unused, as written about in many countries over the last few weeks, and discussed, with all sorts of links across many threads. So that should always be corrected to "not using ALL stocks of AZ". I hope that is no longer the case but a month ago we were being told things like "By February 23, 1.45 million doses had been delivered to Germany, but only 240,000 had been used" and there have been stoppages, 'pauses' since - and no, I didn't make it up, Google is your friend there too!

[quote mumsneedwine]@EasterIssland do even though we have paid for it and it is contractually ours the EU would rather give it to anyone else but UK. Just remember EU that boosters will be needed. And if you want the technology to produce these you'll have to ask for it. Because I can't see any company giving it freely now. [/quote]
also it's not all countries within the eu refusing it, there are countries that are using as much AZ (currently) as they're being given. I'm Spanish and my friends would rather have AZ than nothing. so if Germany is not going to use them they should be sent somewhere where they'd be used.