Can we please stop saying the vaccine does not reduce transmission?

[Frequentflier]

It does. Plenty of evidence now out which everyone can find for themselves. edition.cnn.com/2021/03/29/health/pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines-work-wellness/index.html

It is up to you to not take the vaccine if you don't want to. But please stop dressing it up as an unselfish choice if you have no conditions that stop you from taking it.

Where have I said that people in public places need to adjust their behaviour?

When you were arguing in favour of treating the unvaccinated like lepers and banning them from going anywhere because it's not discrimination to want to avoid people who may infect you.

Banning them from everywhere would be an adjustment of behaviour, don't you think?

‘In no country in the world, not even Brazil where there is pretty much zero response in terms of lockdowns etc have people 'died on the street' due to covid.’
@TheDailyCarbunkle this simply isn’t true. In Brazil it was a shit show. They ran out of oxygen and thousands of people were dying of suffocation. Queuing outside of hospitals to get in but no beds. Bodies on the streets. Huge death toll. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/04/bodies-streets-presidents-denial-latin-america-emerging-new/amp/

There were indeed bodies on the streets in Brazil.

I think I've come to the conclusion this morning that the coronavirus topic board on here is too detrimental to my mental health to remain. After having felt attacked on a different thread, simply for saying that I feel anxious and worried about aspects of the vaccine, partly because I'm a vegan and worried about the animal use. Also partly due to severe medical anxiety and other mental health issues. To be called selfish in response repeatedly by one poster, when I've been in absolute sleep-stealing agony over it, blew my mind. I feel more confused and guilty than ever about the vaccine. Not sure what to do.
PLEASE, those of you who are desperate for others to be vaccinated, meet the nervous people with kindness & compassion. All the anger and allegations, when most people want to do the right thing in life, is profoundly unhelpful, and potentially very damaging. I do totally understand people are scared, which influences behaviour. But, I'm shocked, really shocked, at the level of actual abuse I've seen. I'm totally perplexed by it. I'm just too sensitive for the coronavirus board. Sincere best wishes to all

I couldn't give a flying fuck if its selfish to not have the vaccine. I'll be selfish when it comes to my medical choices and taking a trial drug, thanks very much.

Virtue signalling around the vaccine is tedious. You are no better or worse by getting it, everyone has a right to medical freedom and it's a dangerous path to head down if you start discriminating those who dont get it.

@WanderingFruitWonderer sorry you're feeling so unsettled, I hope a real helps.

There's a lot of covid bullying now in all directions, very sad to see really. Country needs bringing together somehow.

everyone has a right to medical freedom and it's a dangerous path to head down if you start discriminating those who dont get it

I totally agree.

I'm pro-vaccine but really worried about the bullying I'm witnessing.

Thank you @beginningoftheend yes it's very very sad all round I feel very sad and distressed. I wish I'd never posted on here. I did so in innocence.
I know loads of people are feeling troubled at the moment, so I don't want to be indulgent about it. But I think we all need to take a collective deep breath, and somehow, as you say, we need to come together again.
I've made a clear decision to not post on any of the other coronavirus threads, it's too risky for me. But I obviously wanted to thank you for your kind message.

You are no better or worse by getting it, everyone has a right to medical freedom and it's a dangerous path to head down if you start discriminating those who dont get it

I agree that no one should be bullied, I don’t agree it’s discriminatory to put restrictions in for those who don’t, as they pose an additional risk. Those individuals habe a choice, like the rest of us, unless there is a medical reason they can’t have it.

The simple fact of the matter is remaining unvaccinated comes with a cost. Now either society pays that cost with the continual spread of the virus, or the individual does, by being limited in their interactions with others.

For me, it’s a personal choice and the individual who chooses not to be vaccinated should be the only person to pay the price of it. No one else. It is not acceptable to think you can choose not to have it, but be allowed to pose a risk to others and habe them pay the price instead.

Anyone choosing not to have it, needs to understand there is ramifications of that decision and accept that only them should be negatively impacted by it.

So not being allowed in social venues, many work places, planes etc to protect others from you until Covid is totally eliminated globally is the right and only decision that can be made.

@WanderingFruitWonderer I’ve seen your posts on other threads and think perhaps you are way too sensitive to be continually posting. Who cares what a bunch of people you don’t know think on a social media network? You forget that it’s full of keyboard warriors who know there’s is no come back for what they type. Everyone will have a different view, some wildly different to yours. If people think you are selfish, that’s their issue, not yours. If you have truly made peace with your decision then stand by it but maybe keep your own counsel if you are not keen on the criticism that will inevitably come with that choice.

I think there is enormous scaremongering around this vaccine and would be interested to hear how many people have actually read some reputable research papers by the scientific community on the subject, rather than a heaps of rubbish thrown out over the web. Or Joe Blogs saying ‘ my mother in law had it and then had a heart attack a week later...I think it’s connected.’ None of which ( although dreadful) is helpful or relevant. You vaccine hundreds of thousands of people and some of them will have illnesses in the following days, nobody is vaccinated and some people will experience illnesses in that time period too. You can not wildly leap to the conclusion that the two are related.

I really can understand if people have looked at these cases of the AZ vaccine and thought "I'll take my chances with the virus", perhaps by not leaving the house much, but if you want to live a relatively normal life in the near future, your risk of covid is statistically much higher than that side effect, so it seems some just aren't good at calculating probability/risk.
What annoys me more are the refusers who vaguely talk about long term consequences. Yes, maybe there are, but the short term consequences of covid for you and society are staring you in the face, so bloody well risk it!! It's a lot of superstition and unscientific thinking in general. Even my many vaccine refuser friends are accepting the vaccine...all except one (who is from Senegal, and I do think there is something culturally significant going on here that we haven't got to the bottom of...he sends me internet conspiracy theories and is deeply suspicious).

I really can understand if people have looked at these cases of the AZ vaccine and thought "I'll take my chances with the virus", perhaps by not leaving the house much, but if you want to live a relatively normal life in the near future, your risk of covid is statistically much higher than that side effect, so it seems some just aren't good at calculating probability/risk

I think in many instances what these people want is everyone else to have it and reduce the risk for them.

The facts are if you don’t have it you heighten the risk of the continual spread of Covid in society. We have seen th devastating impact of the pandemic.

Personally I believe if someone does not have the vaccine through choice this is totally and utterly fine, and should 100 percent always be their choice. But they cannot be permitted to then go about increasing the risk of Covid continuing to spread. So they need to be limited in what they are permitted to do and how close they can get to others, the risk needs to be limited another way.

However yes, they personally still run the heightened risk of if they do catch it they will end up hospitalised, long term I’ll or dying. A much greater risk to them personally than the vaccine poses. But again this is personal choice.

@Poorlykitten yes, you're absolutely right that I'm far too sensitive to be posting on here. Crazily I only finally realised that this morning!
The thing is that I haven't remotely made peace with a decision. I haven't made a decision at all. I'm more likely to get vaccinated than not, but have worries. That's partly why I was engaging with these discussions, to get clarity, and really understand all the issues. But I'm more confused than ever.
I made a mistake posting my thoughts on the other thread. I regret it, and learnt from it. I get upset if I'm misunderstood, and get tied up in knots and have to explain myself in great detail! I found the allegation of selfishness re the vaccine especially upsetting, as I really do want to do the right thing, but feel confused. I certainly don't want to be selfish.
Anyway, I've made my dilemma far worse for myself by posting on the other thread. My own fault I know.
Thank you though. You're right that it's totally unsuitable for me to be posting on here. It became a compulsion for a while. You've confirmed my own thoughts. I appreciate the time you took to advise me.

I often wonder if this had been a pandemic that affected the younger population more so that the elderly ( as in this case)... or , god-forbid, children were the most serious casualties, how differently the anti-Vaxers would behave?

@FourTeaFallOut

there is still a risk that you might spread infection to others, even if you have been vaccinated and feel entirely well yourself..

But that risk is reduced.

But still exists

@Poorlykitten you also may have missed my post up thread, explaining that very thing, that I have decided the coronavirus board is detrimental to my mental health, and decided to leave. I realise I'm still posting now, but can't not reply. That's part of the problem!
Anyway, thank you again for your time. Best wishes

@Poorlykitten also, to be clear, I'm not an anti-vaxxer AT ALL. I'm just very very anxious, and have medical anxiety. I'm so sorry I keep responding. I've lost the plot a bit I think. I really am very sorry

@Poorlykitten

I often wonder if this had been a pandemic that affected the younger population more so that the elderly ( as in this case)... or , god-forbid, children were the most serious casualties, how differently the anti-Vaxers would behave?

I sometimes wonder if it had been younger people, would older people have given up so much? I hope so but I do wonder.

The vaccine reduces the rate of transmission. As per the thread title, the op and every poster who followed. Where does anyone say it stops transmission boobot1? Who are you fighting with?

I think if it had been children, people would have given up so much and more and you wouldn’t have seen these threads where folk blithely spouted it’s okay that Granny X died from Covid, after all she was 70...

@Bluntness100

as they pose an additional risk

Not necessarily. A vaccinated person may not be immune, an unvaccinated person could be after recovering from infection. It’s not black and white. Proof of a vaccine is not a guarantee that a person is not a risk to anyone else.

It’s also very unlikely that this virus is going to disappear world wide.

Greater immunity comes from being vaccinated rather than actually catching covid, from what I’ve read.

“ I think in many instances what these people want is everyone else to have it and reduce the risk for them.”

I disagree. I think the people declining the vaccine are comfortable taking their risk with the virus. It’s mild/asymptomatic in around 80% of cases. If you are young and have no underlying conditions then the chances of you becoming seriously ill are incredibly low. People choose to take risks on a daily basis and some people make different decisions to others depending on their own circumstances.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe

Druidlookingidiot, this virus has taken it out of so many people, not just the NHS, not just retail workers who've carried on without the accolades. So many people have lost others that they care about and just about everybody has been affected in some adverse way.

This isn't about you and your feelings and whether you're able to keep going - and I really don't care to hear any more heart-rending anecdotes from anybody about the NHS. They are not your personal talisman or tragic heroines to brandish in your attempt to score points and you really have no idea of the circumstances of the people you're posting alongside. None at all.

Do whatever you need to do to keep yourself feel secure; and leave others to do the same.

I completely agree with your first paragraph but I would add that the virus has affected so much more. Our children have missed school/university, our mental health has suffered, 3million have been excluded from financial help, friends and family have died, our economy is wrecked,

Of course this isn’t about my feelings! It’s a global pandemic, affecting everyone. But, the way out of it is the vaccine. That fact cannot be overstated. It’s not good enough to take the attitude that we all need to look after ourselves and let others do the same. We need to get out of this and move forward, by all working together.

We need to educate ourselves about vaccination. We’ve been vaccinating since the 1940s. It’s the most successful public health intervention ever, saving and improving more lives than anything else.

The current vaccines haven’t just appeared overnight. They are based on years and years of science and research. Our vaccination history is something to be extremely proud of in terms of safety and efficacy.

I’m not wanting to score points, I just want people to have the vaccine because it’s the way out of further death and illness, pressure on the NHS and further lockdowns.