Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

It damn well is for that age group!

And oh look - the UK has had 30 cases of the clotting issue after all. Which makes a bloody mockery of its yellow card scheme

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

4 in a million chance of dying of this blood clot on the German figures. The most anyone has managed to push that estimate up to by including only women is 8 in a million women

Versus you have saved yourself from a much higher chance of death than that from COVID of about 1000 in a million if you are over 40

Why can you not see the positives? You have reduced your overall risk of dying by having the vaccine. There's really not much doubt of that. It's a good thing you have done.

This is a really important point on the rarity.

It's also worth looking at the MHRA actual reports. 18 million AZ doses in the UK. 24 cases of CVST logged, but only 4 are listed as having died. It's hard to match up the different factors to de-duplicate from other items, but none of the 21 reduced platelet count cases died (some could be getting a full blood count for other reasons or have lupus etc). Some have died of other things too, with that many vaccinations people will be vaccinated and go on to die of other things.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

Honestly I came home from the vaccine centre so happy and laughing and joking about having chimp blood in me (I know that's not accurate)

How odd

@RafaIsTheKingOfClay It's tricky in Canada, healthcare is a provincial juristiction, the vaccine agency is federal. Each province can make their own decision but usually follows the advice from the central Government. Ultimately, just like in the UK, each provincial government can make their own decision - just like Scotland or Northern Ireland here. Most provinces have now followed the advice to not give the AZ vaccine to people aged under 55.

This is quite a good article, not sure if it's been linked to before, but it seems well-informed and balanced to me:

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/

Roonerspismed

Where are you getting 30 cases of VIPIT/ CVST in the U.K. from?
I thought it was 5
30 in Germany but 5 in the U.K.
(I could not get that FT article to open though)

Terminology isn't helping anyone here I fear
'Clotting disorders' like DVTs or PEs are overall reduced in vaccinated people
Thrombocytopenia just means a reduction in platelets, would usually cause bleeding and not clotting, isn't linked to the vaccine in most cases and isn't harmful in most cases
Central venous sinus thrombosis is a very rare blood clot in the veins inside your brain and is serious but not usually or necessarily linked to thrombocytopenia or to the vaccine
VIPIT/HPT/ DIC is the rare disorder that some scientists think is linked to the vaccine in which both platelets are low and patients develop blood clots especially rare ones like CVST

No one in the U.K. is forced to have a vaccine. You can just decline no questions asked. How are young women being forced?

And nowhere at all has 'banned' the AZ vaccine. The most any country has done is to pause its administration to certain groups

Given the level of anxiety that OP and others have described having I think your posts are irresponsible.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity it's now 30, but that isn't being reported anywhere except the Daily Mail for some reason....

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/975888/Coronavirus_vaccine_-summary_of_Yellow_Card_reporting_21.03.21.pdf

30 reports out of 15.8 million people vaccinated of clotting with low PLT. 22 of those CVST. Nothing reported on the age or sex of those 30.

That's still a very very small number and still much lower than the risk of death or serious complications from COVID even for people under 40 which is thousands.

The fact they have more reports this week also would not concern me or make me think it's due to more younger women being vaccinated. The most likely cause of more reports is more publicity.
We don't even know if these latest cases are male or female.

What we do not know (and I hope someone is doing a case control study to find out) is what the rate of such events is in an unvaccinated population and the yellow card system won't tell you that as it's only for reporting suspected medication side effects. I guess they'd have to have a trawl of hospital episode statistics or something to find the base rate.

covoid my posts are irresponsible? I think t. uk vaccination strategy is exactly that.

• how the heck are these cases only coming to light now? I mean really? This has been discussed for WEEKS
• were these cases yellow carded?

-if they were yellow carded what then happened? -if they weren’t yellow carded why not?

• how can we accurately assess other cases?
• are other conditions in a similar boat in terms of not being either reported it investigated? For example women and increasing reports of menstrual irregularities?
• what are the demographics of those affected and how does this translate to risk for a younger woman, today?

And I’m irresponsible?

Thank you for your continuing patience on this thread @CovoidOfAllHumanity. Nobody is being forced into anything. Don't have the vaccine if you don't want it. NOBODY will force you. But I think the level of rage on this thread is disproportionate and I am no defender of the Tory government.

For me, I'll take my chances with the vaccine. Even if it was 30 in a million (which it isn't), I'd choose that over my odds of having a serious complication with covid. If you wouldn't, fine. But the "women are LITERALLY being FORCED" narrative is rather hyperbolic.

The problem now is that people who have got themselves into a panic about this refusing to have the vaccine will be relying on others to risk it to protect them.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity - I thought it's 18.1m vaccinated with AZ?

Well we are being forced?

As a young female I either take the vaccine or it would seem shortly forfeit my right to attend concerts, football matches, restaurants, pubs and other events.

Bizarrely I am pro-vaccine and pro-covid vaccine but only if there is full disclosure of risks and side effects and no coercion. Frankly we have failed on both sides

With increasing reports of menstrual changes on various threads it’s clear the yellow card system isn’t fit for purpose

@Roonerspismed

covoid my posts are irresponsible? I think t. uk vaccination strategy is exactly that.

• how the heck are these cases only coming to light now? I mean really? This has been discussed for WEEKS
• were these cases yellow carded?

-if they were yellow carded what then happened? -if they weren’t yellow carded why not?

• how can we accurately assess other cases?
• are other conditions in a similar boat in terms of not being either reported it investigated? For example women and increasing reports of menstrual irregularities?
• what are the demographics of those affected and how does this translate to risk for a younger woman, today?

And I’m irresponsible?

What would help is if you read the MHRA report linked, then you can see how your questions are answered. You can even link right through to treatment protocol if you're interested.

As a young female I either take the vaccine or it would seem shortly forfeit my right to attend concerts, football matches, restaurants, pubs and other events.

Yes, that might be right, but hasn't been confirmed yet. So? Your choice. Nobody will force you.

Unless you are a senior member of SAGE, you don't have the right to FORCE your choice on everyone else. Which is what you would be doing if you exercise your choice to remain unvaccinated and then stand in the middle of a crowd at a football match with a huge number of other people, some of whom will be vulnerable.

You don't get to make that choice for other people. How dare you?

Day 12. Still alive!

How dare the government keep going with a vaccine in younger women paused elsewhere?

If you are worried about covid then take the vaccine and go to your football match. Then if you stand next to me, why worry?

This is a very slippery slope to digital ID.

I am watching what the MHRA says with interest and i want to know why these reports are now surfacing.

And what else isn’t surfacing?

I understand and respect those having health anxiety, but look at it this way (at least that’s what I do, and yes, I’ve had the AZ vaccine).

The fact that all these cases have been reported and it’s been said that this condition can be detected with a blood test and then treated, puts us in a better position than we were weeks ago.

The OP says she’s scared of dropping dead, I haven’t heard of people having died from this condition suddenly, they all present symptoms and go to the hospital.

Unfortunately, it was deadly for some and I’m so sorry for them and their families, but we have to learn from those cases and use that knowledge to prevent more deaths.

I've already had my first dose thanks @Roonerspismed . But others may not be able to have the vaccine for medical reasons and may still be vulnerable. See how I am not solely I with my own welfare? Alien concept to you?

Day 18 for anyone interested. Still very much alive. 37 year old on combined pill (rigevidon).

To answer your question, obviously I don't know, but the government dares, I imagine, because:

1. they have not got a steady supply, of the other vaccine and the choice is this or nothing. Nothing is riskier to anyone with the smallest grasp of basic mathematics.

2. there have not been enough cases globally to indicate a direct link between this vaccine and the VIPIT cases.

If you don't like it, you have free choice not to take it, but don't whinge that you can't go out on the piss or watch the footie in person. Do you know how many people, including young women, have died of covid compared to VIPIT? I think you have lost perspective if I'm totally honest. I understand why. But your posts are honestly a little off kilter.

Concerned with*

Vaccines*

I'm on my phone. Excuse typos!

Obviously they were 'yellow carded' because that's how we know about them

The link that was posted was to the weekly collation of yellow card reports. They all get posted on there every single week so it is completely transparent. I don't know how it could be more so. There is no conspiracy here.

It's a voluntary reporting system that anyone can use patients or Drs. People can report anything they think might be related but the vast majority of the time it's not going to actually be related. A yellow card report isn't some kind of accurate data about side effects but it can be a signal of something needing to be investigated further which MHRA say they are continuing to do.

And obviously, keeping an eye on it is sensible @Roonerspismed. I am with you there. But there is a difference between keeping an eye on things and being open minded and then screaming at strangers on the internet about how the government is engaged in a conspiracy to poison you, OR, horror of horrors, prevent you from going to watch Aston Villa v Spurs or something. (Sorry if that doesn't make sense - not a football fan as I'm sure is evident).

@Dongdingdong Sorry you don’t have any silly jokes with your family, and that you felt you had to pop onto the thread to try to put someone down.

It might be that in a few weeks there is more clarity that makes it clear that the vaccine is safe for my age group and sex. But I don’t think that’s clear right now and the constant drip of damning information alongside reassurances that it’s probably all ok are really hard to handle.

@Illneverletgojack

As a young female I either take the vaccine or it would seem shortly forfeit my right to attend concerts, football matches, restaurants, pubs and other events.

Yes, that might be right, but hasn't been confirmed yet. So? Your choice. Nobody will force you.

Unless you are a senior member of SAGE, you don't have the right to FORCE your choice on everyone else. Which is what you would be doing if you exercise your choice to remain unvaccinated and then stand in the middle of a crowd at a football match with a huge number of other people, some of whom will be vulnerable.

You don't get to make that choice for other people. How dare you?

of course it is mandatory, if people are told they cant access various buildings meaning they cant live their lives it is forced in all but name.

Even if the numbers that suffer fatal side effects from the vaccine are smaller than covid itself which they may very well be- what would you call the death of someone who didnt want a medical treatment that died as a consequence of that? The law by it's own very criteria used would call it manslaughter, is that acceptable to you?