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Original poster

Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

999 replies

Boringlynormal · 30/03/2021 10:18

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

OP posts:
Ginandfantalemon · 01/04/2021 11:36

My blue envelope came yesterday for my vaccine appointment which is for the 12th April. If they're supposed to be halting AZ soon, they still must have enough to dish out the second dozes. I am 57 and so anxious with all this news so finding it impossible to make a decision. My gut says no, my head says yes. I feel I would like to wait until more details are available regarding any connection between the women who have experienced clots but will these details ever come to light? I think UK Government will be panicking now. (or they should be). We deserve answers. Should we be pressing them and demanding better transparency. If I drop from a fatal clot, Boris and his cronies wont give a toot!

Ginandfantalemon · 01/04/2021 11:42

There you go - my anxious brain doesn't even know my age!! Im 56.

EasterIssland · 01/04/2021 11:42

@Ginandfantalemon

My blue envelope came yesterday for my vaccine appointment which is for the 12th April. If they're supposed to be halting AZ soon, they still must have enough to dish out the second dozes. I am 57 and so anxious with all this news so finding it impossible to make a decision. My gut says no, my head says yes. I feel I would like to wait until more details are available regarding any connection between the women who have experienced clots but will these details ever come to light? I think UK Government will be panicking now. (or they should be). We deserve answers. Should we be pressing them and demanding better transparency. If I drop from a fatal clot, Boris and his cronies wont give a toot!
didn't MHRA give answers a couple of weeks ago? do they've to keep repeating themselves every time a country stops using it?
CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 11:42

Honestly I can't see any evidence of anything being covered up. All that is known is in the public domain and I doubt there is any more that can be said. What kind of info were you thinking of?

There is a limit to what can be said
with any accuracy about a handful of cases. Unless lots more cases do occur then there will not be any more data to work with in the short term

You have to have a large amount of data (cases) to work with to be able to say that an association is due to a vaccine vs due to chance in an unselected population without the benefits of a control group or random allocation.

EasterIssland · 01/04/2021 11:43

also if you drop of Covidd Boris an his cronies won't give a toot, you need to balance whether the benefit is higher than the risk for you

Fieldofmemes · 01/04/2021 11:52

@Circumlocutious yes, that could be the case. We just don't know. So the cautious response is to offer young people (especially women) a different vaccine - which is what a lot of countries are doing.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 12:06

Thinking about it some more you need a case control study where you examine the odds that a person who had CVST/IPIT was exposed to the vaccine vs the odds that they were not.

That study would be possible to do.

The apparent frequency of the events in Norway and Germany could be due to sampling bias or you get one case, you theorise it is due to the vaccine so you reach out to other Drs and ask if they had any cases and you find some. The flaw in that is that as you did not ask for cases not associated with the vaccine then you don't get told about those.

On another thread (in FWR) a GP said she'd seen the first ever 2 cases of CVST in her career this year but they were both before the vaccines were available so there is an alternative possibility that COVID itself is causing these things and not the vaccine

poppycat10 · 01/04/2021 12:23

@QuietBatPeople1

I hiding understand the frenzy around vaccinating everything that moves when the priority should be the at risk group. That would buy some time to study the data and give more information around the safety? It’s almost become a religion like status in the UK- either you are a believer or not nothing in between- if you believe no questions should be asked! That worries and scares me
But we aren't vaccinating everything that moves and the priority is the at risk group.

I am 49 and as I've not been called before 31 March, I now won't be until they officially start healthy under 50s as they are doing second doses and the mop-up.

One advantage of that is that they do have time to study the data and see if there are any cases of clots in the younger healthy people who have managed to be vaccinated in the last 2-3 weeks.

canigooutyet · 01/04/2021 15:18

Could the link be that they had low platelet count to begin with?
And this could explain why both sexes have been effected by this?

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 01/04/2021 16:37

You can’t really base an individual decision on whether you should have the vaccine on the decision on public health decisions made in another country. Those decisions will have been based on where they are in their vaccine program, what stocks they have and what they are expecting to be delivered. If you are still mostly vaccinating over 60s and have more Pfizer than AZ and there’s an issue with your AZ supply and you are on top of your covid outbreak, then this decision might not affect your vaccine program at all for a while.

In the U.K. that situation might be very different, for a number of reasons. So the risk of not vaccinating under 55s with is higher than the possible risk of clots.

Original poster
Boringlynormal · 01/04/2021 22:37

This article seems to be saying that they've identified a total of 30 cases of this 'rare' blood thing in the UK now. It says 30 in 18.1 million vaccines equates to 1 in 600,000 but that's not true is it? It's 30 in however many under 55 women have been vaccinated so a much higher rate.

Honestly this is making me so ill and scared. I wish I could go back in time and get this stuff out my arm. I got it as a carer on the assumption that if anything happens to me then my DC are more vulnerable due to DC1's autism. Except a) I might never have got Covid but I've got something that seems to cause a serious problem and nobody is talking about it in my arm instead and b) The effect it's having on my mental health is not helping me to care for my family right now.

OP posts:
Original poster
Boringlynormal · 01/04/2021 22:38

Sorry, article: www.ft.com/content/d5cd63c6-af01-4d29-a5e5-b69ade4f3803

OP posts:
LeeMiller · 01/04/2021 22:55

This article seems to be saying that they've identified a total of 30 cases of this 'rare' blood thing in the UK now. It says 30 in 18.1 million vaccines equates to 1 in 600,000 but that's not true is it? It's 30 in however many under 55 women have been vaccinated so a much higher rate.

I can’t see that the article states anywhere that all the U.K. cases have all been women under 55? I think the UK’s previously reported cases were mostly men. The German cases seem to fall into that category but is that the case everywhere? The EMA stated yesterday that so far they haven’t identified a common factor in terms of age/sex/medications (full report due in just over a week).

EasterIssland · 01/04/2021 22:58

Op I think “ The effect it's having on my mental health is not helping me to care for my family right now.” is more damaging than what the vaccine itself is going to do on you. The clot you might get it or not (the odds are on your side) but the mh is really affecting you. I’ve had days that all the info has been too much for myself , more than what I can myself understand and I panic. Those days I need to disconnect from sm and news because otherwise I enter an spiral of uncertainty where I die in my mind multiple times and then nothing happens ... but the damage on my mh has happened. What you have to remember is that mhra as well as ema have approved it and keep approving it. They are the ones that have the knowledge and the understanding. Not the news who are after some clics
Do you think a break from news would be helpful for you ?

QuietBatPeople1 · 01/04/2021 23:09

@Boringlynormal I’m really sorry to hear that, I can empathise with how you must be feeling mentally as I’m struggling as well. I haven’t had the vaccine but the pressure to have it is really destroying me as a person. I feel very scared that I will be forced to have it or branded an anti vaxxer. Really don’t like what this has come down to in the UK.
As the previous poster suggested would it help to take a break from reading about it?

Circumlocutious · 01/04/2021 23:30

Switch off the news, stop reading about this, come back to MN in a month. You'll be fine.

Original poster
Boringlynormal · 01/04/2021 23:36

Yes, my DH says the same thing but I'm finding it very hard as I read and read to look for the thing that will make me safer. Like when I read that being a smoker 'might be an aggravating factor I feel better for a while because I'm not a smoker.

I know that the MHRA and EMA continue to approve it but most countries aren't using it on younger women currently are they? They also said there was no risk of blood clots beyond what you'd expect and I just don't believe that's true anymore. Experts seem to agree this IS a thing. Even the UK has suspiciously paused all new vaccinations in April to do second doses (allegedly) right? It makes me feel like an experiment. I'm so gutted as I saw the news break about clots and was so rational about it, and reassured my mum (who had AZ) and was so happy to get offered the jab, and then literally 2 days later the Canada/Germany suspension happened and I realised that not only was this still a potential issue, but that it was actually specifically a risk for young women around my age. If I'd known that I'd 100% not have got it. I'm wishing my life (and holidays btw!) away to get out of the 'danger zone' post vaccination (day 7 tomorrow and it's 20 days apparently) but don't know if I'll even relax then.

Honestly I came home from the vaccine centre so happy and laughing and joking about having chimp blood in me (I know that's not accurate) and behaving like a chimp to be silly for the kids and now I just feel like a wreck. I regret it so much.

OP posts:
Fieldofmemes · 01/04/2021 23:39

I empathise too. It is driving me mad, constantly trying to make a decision with a blood clotting disorder and getting differing opinions from different doctors. Now Boris says vaccine passports are definite. Whilst at the same time giving young women no choice other than to have this vaccine that other countries have seen fit to ban. There is immense pressure from other people to have the vaccine and people now ignoring social distancing who will spread the virus. I've half a mind to start a campaign group. How dare they force young women into this position?

EasterIssland · 01/04/2021 23:45

News won’t tell you or ressure you that you won’t have a blood clot. When I was pregnant I used to find answers to my symptoms on google ... news were never good and I ended up in hospital multiple times because of it. When I gave birth I realised how news hadn’t helped me enjoying my pregnancy. I’m saying this cuz I believe you’re in a similar position trying to find a reassurance but news won’t. Ema and mhra ones should be the ones helping you

Im Spanish , Spain is using it on under 65s at the Momebt. Teachers / policewomen have been offered it. So far no news linked to the vaccine.

I’ve had it. 36yo

You’ve already had it, you can’t change it now, so if this all is causing you anxiety I think it’s time to disconnect a bit. If it has to happen unluckily it’ll. , however as mentioned the odds are on your side and you should be fine like millions around the world.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 23:50

4 in a million chance of dying of this blood clot on the German figures. The most anyone has managed to push that estimate up to by including only women is 8 in a million women

Versus you have saved yourself from a much higher chance of death than that from COVID of about 1000 in a million if you are over 40

Why can you not see the positives? You have reduced your overall risk of dying by having the vaccine. There's really not much doubt of that. It's a good thing you have done.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 01/04/2021 23:54

Most countries are still using it on younger women. It's the minority who have paused it and that is actually against regulatory advice.

Best case scenario when they get more data they prove it is unrelated

Worse case scenario it is put down as a very rare side effect. I very much doubt it would be withdrawn from use altogether.

laurynlouu · 01/04/2021 23:58

i’ve been suffering terribly with anxiety over this but like above posters have said it really is such a small chance of happening
that doesn’t make it less scary but it’s so very rare
i have deleted social media and stayed away from the news and that has helped
i know many under 55’s especially females that have had it and are fine

Tealightsandd · 02/04/2021 00:42

I thought that Covid itself has been linked to these same rare blood clots? In which case the risks are higher if you're unvaccinated. Also, do we yet know whether the people who died were checked for covid? Bearing in mind there are lot of false negatives even if they were tested.

Roonerspismed · 02/04/2021 05:56

field I feel the same. Bear in mind vaccines will be needed at least annually if not more.

All through this I have had a sinking feeling. This is the start of state intervention like we have never seen before. And under a tory government. It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so horrific

Young women literally forced into injecting substances banned in other countries.

By the way they issue might be the preservative polysorbate 80. The safety of this is not nearly as clear is might be thought - it is used in lots of medications but can possibly trigger allergic reactions. Who knows if I has other subtler effects?

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 02/04/2021 06:33

Recommending that a vaccine is not given to a specific age group is not the same as banning it is it?