Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

@CurseMyTinyThumbs

Probably more risk driving to the appointment…

Not unless you’re driving about 1,000 miles to get your vaccine, no.

Does anyone know how quickly symptoms would show up? I'm 12 days post vaccine and had a headache for about a week. I put this down to other medication I'm taking

@FloraFauna27

My DM had a heart attack 12 hours after the AZ. We don’t know if it is connected.

How is your Mum doing?

@Wakemeuuuup

Does anyone know how quickly symptoms would show up? I'm 12 days post vaccine and had a headache for about a week. I put this down to other medication I'm taking

Within 14 days is what I've read. With a headache for a week, I'd personally have a chat with GP.

Had mine Friday too Boringly, am seriously tempted to put myself on aspirin for the next three weeks. I have autoimmune issues and already widowed - don’t feel inclined to risk orphaned children :(

The statistics for the U.K. show that the incidence of clots in recently immunised people is lower than you would expect in that time frame anyway! Thus if 1 million people are not vaccinated, x number are likely to have a clotting event spontaneously, vaccinated people in the U.K. actually have a lower rate. (Source bbc)

Other countries seem to be reporting slightly higher rates it seems from what i have read even once moderated for age distribution. I've been vaccinated as has my dd and we are under 50

Risk of death from covid if you're young is 0.23%: www.imperial.ac.uk/news/207273/covid-19-deaths-infection-fatality-ratio-about/.
That's 230 in 100,000, 1 in 434. That's an awful lot higher.

Please DO NOT TAKE ASPIRIN WITHOUT MEDICAL ADVICE FROM YOUR DOCTOR. It is a blood thinner, you are as likely to have issues from bleeds as from clots so talk with a doctor to see if it is a good approach in your particular circumstance.

MRex
"It's reasonable for countries with no covid cases to pause vaccination programmes if they can afford the longer lockdown that implies. That presumes they are using the time to identify genetic or health predisposition and comparing covid death and hospitalisation rates for those conditions with the vaccine death and hospitalisation rates (really hard with cases being so rare). If countries have covid circulating in their communities and aren't locking down, then even a pause in the vaccination programme risks far more lives than it could hope to save by this approach."

I agree with you here, but it would be unethical to know about a serious side effect (even if it occurs rarely) and not inform the patient of the risk before vaccinating them.

@Boringlynormal we sound very similar, feeling a bit sick with anxiety right now but trying to find some reassurance in the figures particularly the ones just posted re the normal incidence of this condition. After a year full of worry I was hoping I’d be able to breathe a bit of a sigh of relief soon. I guess it’s back to focusing on just how small the risk is and keeping everything crossed it doesn’t effect us. I did also read before having my vaccination that if it’s picked up early it’s very treatable and the good news is that we will be hyper aware of any potential symptoms. My husband is booked in tomorrow evening not sure what he’ll choose to do. Think I need to step away from the news as worrying isn’t now going to change anything. Is 20 days considered to be the cut off when we can relax?

Sorry, I thought that looked high. I took the wrong number and used low income countries. Covid mortality risk under 40 should be 0.1%. That's only 100 in 100,000 or 1 in 1,000. Still a lot higher than the risk of these events that may or may not be linked with vaccines.

I agree with MRex that the precautionary principle doesn’t necessarily mean we should cease vaccinations at a time when we’re still getting hundreds of Covid deaths a week. There are big risks attached to slowing the pace of vaccination.

However given the fact that the specific group who may possibly be at some risk of side effects are at pretty low risk from Covid I would like to know more - whether the women in question were taking the combined pill for example.

@moochingtothepub it is becoming clearer that the UK (and statements from AstraZeneca) reporting of the blood clotting incidents bundles all types of blood clot 'types' in one group - whereas it has now been shown that the type of blood clot happening as a side effect of the AZ vaccine is very rare. In fact it is an extremely rare form of multiple blood clots. It causes widespread blood clots and a low platelet count. It's not the deep vain thrombosis that someone might get if they take a long flight for example. It's very rare, which is why it ringing alarm bells in some countries.

I had my first AZ vaccination last week and have had DVT in past so all the reports were bit concerning but the risks of clotting from Covid seemed higher to me.

Thanks MRex - also feeling anxious pre vaccination and your input is really helpful.in terms of assessing risk.

I'm also concerned why the Canadian suspension is not being reported on the BBC.

@lonelyplanet - of course, assuming that you know about the risk. Right now they do not know if it's correlation or causation, and if it is causation they don't know what genetic or health factors cause it. Pausing vaccination programmes will lose lives ultimately, they can't been seen yet but that's the impact. Nothing prevents it from being investigated while continuing the vaccination programme.

There have also been thrombotic events with no vaccines pre-covid, with covid, and with other vaccines, so it's even less clear why just one vaccine would be paused. Those who've looked at all the data in detail and concluded the benefits far outweigh the risks include MHRA and EMA; they are highly experienced professionals who take their duty of care seriously. When they say there isn't an increase in the overall risk of blood clots, it's worth listening.

MRex you are absolutely right and of course the bigger picture is really important, but for an individual who has just had the jab it is worrying when other countries are more concerned than ours, given the same evidence. It makes me wonder at what point the uk government would feel the risk was worth slowing the vaccine rollout for.

Neither Norway or Denmark have restarted the AstraZeneca vaccine. AstraZeneca remains suspended in these countries.

Other countries have only resumed the AZ for the over 55s as they are concerned the risks are too high for younger cohorts.

When they say there isn't an increase in the overall risk of blood clots, it's worth listening. And it's worth questioning too.

Do they include ALL types of blood clots in their data, or the specific type of very rare type of blood clots (cerebral venous sinus thrombosis) experienced post-vaccine by (a very small minority of) people? Their age? Their medical condition?

What I find very difficult to believe that the scientific community from credible, well educated, countries with outstanding healthcare, research and universities, are not agreeing on the data. Somebody's wrong, and somebody's right.

@lonelyplanet

MRex you are absolutely right and of course the bigger picture is really important, but for an individual who has just had the jab it is worrying when other countries are more concerned than ours, given the same evidence. It makes me wonder at what point the uk government would feel the risk was worth slowing the vaccine rollout for.

The UK government have so far let MHRA and JCVI advise on approval, roll-out and schedules; politicians simply don't have the skill to do otherwise and luckily so far they are leaving it to the professionals. I suppose theoretically they could intervene but I don't see it happening, nor do I think the NHS teams doing the vaccinating would proceed if there was advice not to do so.

Also from all I've read there have been the same amount of clotting events from Pfizer, why aren't they being suspended? Profit? Better lawyers?

@FourWordsImMuNiTy

Bear in mind that the age profile of people given the AZ vaccine in the UK will be older than those given the vaccine in the EU, because the EU mostly didn’t give AZ to the over 65s until very recently. However I’d have expected younger women to be reasonable well represented in the HCP vaccine band in the UK.

but I think they mainly got the Pfizer vaccine.

However, a lot of areas have been ahead on vaccinating the healthy under 50s and in recent weeks few people have received the Pfizer vaccine as as first dose, so I would have thought that given the sheer numbers of vaccinations given in the UK, there was a decent number of women under 50 receiving it (a large number of whom will be on the Pill, so there should be plenty of data).

Didn't they actually discover the number of cases of bloodclots was actually less than you would expect in the general population?

It makes me wonder at what point the uk government would feel the risk was worth slowing the vaccine rollout for

they kind of are slowing down the rollout this next month. I wonder if there's any relationship? It will mainly be Pfizer second doses plus over 50s AZ. It will actually give some time to evaluate what other countries are saying and see what the data is here.

@MintyMabel

Didn't they actually discover the number of cases of bloodclots was actually less than you would expect in the general population?

It's a different sort of blood clot and they are very rare. Not just any old blood clot.