Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

Seriously hope now all the top world immunisation people now look into this and we find out exactly whats going on as world needs to work together on this, share all data and info.
Im day 10 so a while to go before i can assume I am ok ? But I have to have a 2nd jab and now seriously debating that

Really glad I read this thread - Not. I had my first vaccine Friday. I was quite poorly, so spent the weekend very lazy getting DH to do everything. Then woke up with a stiff neck as slept a lot of the weekend on the sofa.

Now paranoid stiff neck is because I have a blood clot

Thank you to those keeping me company in my horrible time, and to those with reassuring words. I keep checking the news because I’m desperate for more information. Eg is there any linking factor between the cases, or updated risk level or statement from the government that invited me for the vaccine and put it in my arm?!

Thanks @MRex!

@Boringlynormal yes would appreciate more news as well and hope data is available, think we need a press conference in next few days to at least explain what is going on , what they know so far etc etc

Are the list of symptoms to look out for on one of the linked articles. I'm day 3 so feeling anxious now.

I wouldn't normally advocate getting unecessary tests when you have health anxiety but those of you on here who are losing sleep and don't have a way of managing your anxiety, why not go and get a private blood test so you can rest easy? They are very available these days. All you need is a platelet count blood test as this extremely rare condition has low platelets (you usually see high with blood clotting). Usually reported as part of a full blood count screen.

@Notthemessiah that is so well put.

@time4anothername that's helpful thank you

@time4anothername

I wouldn't normally advocate getting unecessary tests when you have health anxiety but those of you on here who are losing sleep and don't have a way of managing your anxiety, why not go and get a private blood test so you can rest easy? They are very available these days. All you need is a platelet count blood test as this extremely rare condition has low platelets (you usually see high with blood clotting). Usually reported as part of a full blood count screen.

I totally, totally would, but the event apparently happens between day 4 and day 20 post vaccination so even if I got a test on, say, day 10, that presumably doesn't mean I can't still get it.

@time4anothername I wouldn't say I have health anxiety but of course its worrying and would just like to know as much info as is known as well as what to look out for.
How would i even get a blood test, would the drs fo for this? I can't afford a private one i don't imagine
I think I at least want the goverment to address it again in press conference and tell as as much as is known at least .
I still don't understand why this data has only just come to light now when it was just last week it was paused and then restarted ? Are they all really recent

@Boringlynormal yes that the thing its quite a while , I am sure when i first read i thought it showed in days so thought I was passed danger zone , so to speak but now reading up to 20 days means I am only half way.

There's an excellent write up here on the whole subject.

www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/03/astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clot-issue-wont-go-away/618451/

I really wouldn't worry about one's own risk - the chances are incredibly slim even if the vaccine is to blame, and it's a very treatable condition anyway. Details of the symptoms to watch for in this article:

www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/the-astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clots-and-vipit-what-you-need-to-know-1.5367509

VIPIT symptoms usually occur between four and 20 days after vaccination and include persistent and severe headaches, seizures, blurred vision, shortness of breath, chest or abdominal pain and redness in a limb

This complication (VIPIT) is very very rare. There is no certainty at all that it is definitely linked to the vaccine
I haven't been able to find the exact number of cases but most sources are saying it's 1 in a million chance and the numbers of cases are in the 10s not the 100s.

It's not the same as IPT or just thrombocytopenia (which simply means low platelet count and can be transitory and harmless depending on the severity)
It's a specific combination of low platelet count and clotting whereas low platelet count usually means a bleeding risk not a clotting risk.

It is really unrealistic to think that there will be accurate data coming out about risk factors to guide us. You should actually be glad about that because that is because it is such a rare event that you would need to wait a long time to be able to get enough cases to make a valid statistical comparison. Even the women aged 20-55 thing could easily be a chance association given the numbers of cases we are taking about.
Canada despite suspending the vaccine have not had any cases and I don't think the U.K. have either.

The 47 cases of thrombocytopenia in the yellow card reports aren't the same thing.

People describing it loosely as 'clotting' is unhelpful because there is a reduced risk of PEs and DVTs in vaccinated people vs unvaccinated so if you have had a PE or DVT or have a clotting tendency you are at higher risk from Covid and you should have the vaccine.

The ITP support group are recommending people with ITP do have the vaccine because the risk of ITP from Covid is very likely to be higher than ITP from any vaccine.

Unlike other concerns previously expressed about the vaccine I am willing to give this one the time of day BUT the main thing is it is very, very rare and much rarer than the chance of a bad outcome from Covid.

Just speaking personally I would still, as a woman under 50, have the AZ vaccine although I appreciate I am speaking from the luxury position of having had Pfizer. I did however put myself up for the AZ trial and I would have been happy to be injected with it had I not had placebo

Quite honestly I don't think a 1 in a million chance of anything is something I am going to lose any sleep over. That is a very very rare thing indeed.

You could argue you could hold out for Pfizer or another one and still get the COVID protection and not have any risk but who is to say that a very very rare complication of that one will not then arise. I always thought it more likely it would be the Pfizer or Moderna ones that might have a rare complication as the technology is much less tried and tested. However my worry is not to the extent that I would avoid any vaccine because my judgement is that the known harms of COVID are worse and more likely.

Does anyone know how many cases if this we have had in the uk ?

Well there were NONE in Wales out of 440 thousand people.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-56578562

I'm pretty sure the answer is none at all and none in Canada

I think the cases were in Norway and in Germany

Across the UK, five cases apparently

www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-regulator-confirms-that-people-should-continue-to-receive-the-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca

@notrub great article thanks for link
Makes sense and much more measured than we read in uk papers

I am also slightly concerned about this as I have autoimmune and very frequent migraine. I would pity DH having to wonder whether to call the Dr to ask if its normal migraine or something else.

I cant take triptans but would sometimes take 900mg aspirin at onset which is often recommended for migraine. (as an aside perhaps that's what some of the affected have done thinking they just have a bad migraine but unknowingly worsened the problem?) I can't fully grasp all of the mechanisms at play but I wont be taking aspirin now if I had just had the vaccine!

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I wanted to ask what you thought about my wondering if there is possible link with antiphospholipid syndrome (APS) so called 'sticky blood syndrome'?

My rationale being that APS is much more common in women than men which would explain the disparity of the incidents between the sexes, and is often undiagnosed so wouldn't be flagged as an underlying condition. I have skim read that APS is associated with thrombocytopenia/CVST , albeit rarely, even though clots are obviously more usually associated with APS. CVST (the type of clotting issue we are concerned about) is associated with APS. and I have read that CVST is more common in women now (have read 3 times more) since the pill was introduced.

I have wondered if I have APS due in part to the migraines but not met the criteria for investigation as not been TTC so (thankfully) not suffered recurrent miscarriage, and so that's why it came to mind. I have also had what seem to be COVID toes recently and I may have had COVID a year ago when there was no testing (really quite ill with all main symptoms but no loss of smell)

But my thinking is also along the lines though of what @MRex said earlier, and that the vaccine won't induce anything that COVID itself wouldn't induce?

I am trying to find out more/ speak to GP but its not easy to find out info.

@notathumb

I am also slightly concerned about this as I have autoimmune and very frequent migraine. I would pity DH having to wonder whether to call the Dr to ask if its normal migraine or something else.

I cant take triptans but would sometimes take 900mg aspirin at onset which is often recommended for migraine. (as an aside perhaps that's what some of the affected have done thinking they just have a bad migraine but unknowingly worsened the problem?) I can't fully grasp all of the mechanisms at play but I wont be taking aspirin now if I had just had the vaccine!

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I wanted to ask what you thought about my wondering if there is possible link with antiphospholipid syndrome (APS) so called 'sticky blood syndrome'?

My rationale being that APS is much more common in women than men which would explain the disparity of the incidents between the sexes, and is often undiagnosed so wouldn't be flagged as an underlying condition. I have skim read that APS is associated with thrombocytopenia/CVST , albeit rarely, even though clots are obviously more usually associated with APS. CVST (the type of clotting issue we are concerned about) is associated with APS. and I have read that CVST is more common in women now (have read 3 times more) since the pill was introduced.

I have wondered if I have APS due in part to the migraines but not met the criteria for investigation as not been TTC so (thankfully) not suffered recurrent miscarriage, and so that's why it came to mind. I have also had what seem to be COVID toes recently and I may have had COVID a year ago when there was no testing (really quite ill with all main symptoms but no loss of smell)

But my thinking is also along the lines though of what @MRex said earlier, and that the vaccine won't induce anything that COVID itself wouldn't induce?

I am trying to find out more/ speak to GP but its not easy to find out info.

but I wont be taking aspirin now

Why?

Actually the treatment for the condition if it arises, is blood thinners apparently so I'd have thought aspirin might if anything help! But I don't know.

I don't know how to add link but looked up the 5 cases in uk and there is some reports of it although I can't say I remember reading this before anywhere

I'm 35 and I have underlying health conditions and had the AZ jab approx 5 weeks ago.

The jab caused me a huge red mark on my arm approx 2 inches long and an inch high for about a week, a large lump under the skin where it went in (I still have a lump there about the size of a pea now but slowly going down more), an hour of chills, 36 hours of fatigue and aching muscles from sort of the morning after to midnight the next day.

Touch wood it's much the same or better for you all! :)

It has incidentally also made a non-fatal/not 'serious' in terms of health medical condition I had worse but to be fair that was in the side effects and it was always going to flare as the weather improved.

blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/03/30/blood-clots-and-the-az-vaccine-revisited

I found a comment on this article that says all the U.K. cases were in men but not sure if that is accurate

The official government info just posted doesn't say anything on sex or age of the cases.