Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

@SprungisSpringYaY day 4-20 apparently. I’m on day 9.

Wow ok.. I'm also about day 10!!

Day 15 here! So far, fine. I'm a mid thirties woman and am taking the combined pill also. I think, for me, the risk of complications due to covid would be more dangerous, due to something in my medical history. But, nobody seems to know at the minute. It isn't great, for those of us who have had the vaccine and it also isn't great for the vaccine as it will be very off putting.

Great, my vaccination is on Friday, and i have DVT, strokes and early fatal heart attacks in my immediate family history..
I'm shitting it now.

since my ds got ITP (the "usual" type) from a flu jab, would you avoid AZ jab when his turn comes? He no longer has ITP (took exactly a year for platelets to return to normal range). He's not 16 yet so not an option yet.

The Pfizer vaccine is authorised for 16 and 17 year-olds. The AstraZeneca vaccine is only authorised for those who are 18 or over.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

I am a Dr and you are right

This new rare thing is not the same as ITP and it probably isn't what was reported on the yellow cards as thrombocytopenia

It's low platelets causing blood clotting rather than bleeding and it is most like a condition previously linked to heparin HTP

Do you think the issue could be an incorrect treatment of giving heparin with known or suspected clots when those were actually caused by lack of platelets? Is there any specific treatment plan in some countries (e.g. UK and Spain) that might differ in other countries?

@Mumtwoboys90

does anyone know the figures on how many women in uk under 55 have had first AZ dose? what are the other symptoms to look out for!?

I posted a link to the EMA press releai se upthread. If you open it and scroll down it has some information for patients which lists some things to look out for.

Strudel I do agree to an extent, but I do think it's reasonable for people to have concerns and questions about this. It's not necessarily health anxiety or are scaremongering. I don't think not discussing it or insisting that any vaccine is completely safe is helpful at all in convincing people that based on what we know, for most people in the UK getting the AZ vaccine now is much less risk than not being vaccinated at all.

My DH is 47, was invited for the vaccine on Monday and has appointment tomorrow so unless they are using Pfizer at our local mass vaccination hub (which seems unlikely) they are still vaccinating under 50's with AZ.

I understand that there is more risk is not having it than having it but for many there is still a psychological barrier there between putting something in your body that could cause some real harm. No matter how small the percentage is.

Covid on the other hand is a threat that we can’t control, we can’t stop ourselves getting.

Does that even make sense?

I don’t know any women under 50 that have had Astra Zeneca apart from my sister who is late forties and only just had it. They all had Pfizer as most are HCPs and medical professional.

There is this thread with people below 40 who have had AZ, I know it's not representative but it shows that many of us despite being younger than 50 have had it
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4206206-Are-you-under-40-and-had-the-AZ-vaccine

It does make sense, LittleRen. The rational part of my brain had quite a job overcoming my instincts on the morning of my jab, even though I'd been quite excited about it until that point.

@LittleRen

I understand that there is more risk is not having it than having it but for many there is still a psychological barrier there between putting something in your body that could cause some real harm. No matter how small the percentage is.

Covid on the other hand is a threat that we can’t control, we can’t stop ourselves getting.

Does that even make sense?

I don’t know any women under 50 that have had Astra Zeneca apart from my sister who is late forties and only just had it. They all had Pfizer as most are HCPs and medical professional.

It makes perfect sense. It is the difference between actively choosing something now rather than passively (potentially) letting something happen to you later. Being the architect of your own misfortune is much harder to rationalise than being the victim of fate.

Except... you (we) are in control either way. A serious negative effect caused by the vaccination could have been actively avoided by not having the vaccination. But... long Covid or a serious negative event caused by Covid could have been actively avoided by getting vaccinated. It’s not as simple as choice vs nature anymore.

I'm also in the middle of the 4-20 day period and a bit fucked off because I'd thought that once past the first few days with no sign of a headache I could relax and not give any more thought to rare side effects. I probably could relax a bit more if the news about this would just stop evolving. A known risk is one thing - you get your head round it, you put it in perspective, you move on from thinking about it. But the constant drip drip of bad news is making me jumpy as I subconsciously anticipate the next bit of worrying information that might be about to come out.

Arguing that the AZ vaccination programme is a sound public health decision (which it clearly is) isn't actually that helpful to someone at a personal level, who is balancing only individual risks. The odds seem very clearly to be on the side of any one individual not being harmed by the vaccine, but a few days ago the chance was one in millions and now it's higher already and those of us who've recently had this vaccine have now got symptoms as vague as a headache to keep an eye out for. I think people not in that position might appreciate that this progression is genuinely a bit unsettling.

For each of us individuals waiting for 20 days, the odds are overwhelmingly in favour of us being absolutely fine. Let's hold on to that thought, and hope also that that's it, there's not going to be anything worse to find out about the vaccine (although if there is, we'll cope with that too). It's OK to be a bit unsettled and worried by it all though - most medicines, side effects and all, don't have new opinions on side effects plastered all over the news after you've already started taking them.

I kind of understand the dilemma you put @LittleRen, and it's a fair one. I believe there are a few other factors though:

1. Covid-19 exposure risk; living and working in London with a child and occasional international travel - personally I have never questioned that at some point in the future I will come into contact with covid-19, so it's get vaccinated or get infected at some point. If I was anti-social in the depths of Cornwall then perhaps that risk would look lower.
2. Inherent risk profile; we all have different preferences on how we approach risk. Risk takers even at a medium risk level will feel broadly comfortable with any rare risk and gloss over them, whereas more cautious people are more likely to dwell on each item and worry about it.
3. Understanding of maths and how the risks compare. You can explain 1 in 1000 under 40 die of covid versus a maybe risk of 1 in 500,000 from CVST that might be linked with the vaccine, but the concept of 500 times more likely isn't understood by everyone in the same way, to some people it's just similarly large numbers.

We know plenty of young women have had AZ. That was one of the many issues Germany, France etc had with the data from the trials. They wanted data from more over 65s. Whereas AZ mostly used younger healthy people because using frail elderly subjects in earlier trials is immoral. The other pharmaceutical companies didn't have an issue doing that though.

What a great post @YouCanStopNowThanks. I agree with you. It is worrying! And it's ok to be unsettled by it, but the odds are in our favour and...to be a bit blunt, for people like me (day 15), and others waiting, it's done now. We can't trot back to the vaccination clinic and have it removed! Sorry if that sounds flippant, but it is how I am rationalizing it to myself.

Me too @IllNeverLetGoJack. So glad I didn’t know about this until day 9. Day 10 tomorrow and hopefully all ok. Worse for those waiting to have it and having the option.

And I also understand your frustration at the drip feed! But, I'm very glad I saw this thread, as at least I can keep an eye on symptoms

Yes, true benji. I think, if I had an appointment tomorrow, I'd still go, but it would be a bit more stressful.

Had mine Friday too Boringly, am seriously tempted to put myself on aspirin for the next three weeks. I have autoimmune issues and already widowed - don’t feel inclined to risk orphaned children :(

does aspirin mitigate?

Also worth bearing in mind that as well as the odds being on your side, causation is far from being proven, Youcanstopnow. It's something that's been flagged up in post-marketing that needs more investigation and people should be aware of.

They wanted data from more over 65s. Whereas AZ mostly used younger healthy people because using frail elderly subjects in earlier trials is immoral. The other pharmaceutical companies didn't have an issue doing that though.

Over 55s don't have to be frail and elderly. Not at all unethical to use perfectly healthy over 55s or over 65s in trials. AZ even used some. Just not enough to provide any conclusive data that the vaccine worked in that age group. And if we're going to mud sling about pharma companies ethics, I wouldn't be painting AZ as whiter than white tbh. I'm not sure why half of MN seems to be tripping over themselves to protect them.

@knocke

Had mine Friday too Boringly, am seriously tempted to put myself on aspirin for the next three weeks. I have autoimmune issues and already widowed - don’t feel inclined to risk orphaned children :(

does aspirin mitigate?

No! If you got a bleeding issue then aspirin will make it worse. Aspirin is a blood thinner, please always talk to a GP before taking it to check your personal circumstances.

Great Post @YouCanStopNowThanks. I'm at two weeks post-vacc now and had thought it was time to relax - today's news appears to have added another six days .

I think one of the other elements I'm struggling with is there's so much information yet not enough; it feels like it has been established it's more prevalent in women aged between 20 and 55, but then that's it. No other clue as to what else could be a risk factor, which leads to an awful lot of us feeling we've been put at risk.

Added to this a list of symptoms which are vague at best (headache, stomach pain, shortness of breath), and a health service that tends towards the dismissive (certainly in terms of gate-keeping) and it's easy to see why so many of us are genuinely concerned.