Canada pauses AZ vaccines for under 55s (and says women most at risk)

[Boringlynormal]

Please tell me this isn’t something to worry about: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/30/canada-suspends-use-of-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-for-those-under-55

Speaking as a woman in her 30s who was immunised 4 days ago (article tells us the risk is for young women 4 - 20 days after vaccination), I’m panicking now. Yes I know it’s rare but so is dying of Covid in my age group so I’m wondering if I’ve made a huge mistake.

By the way I’m very pro vaccine and leapt on the chance to get one. I’m just feeling so anxious now.

notrub as I say I don't understand all the mechanisms, but I wouldn't want to take automatically it without fully understanding the implications.

I do know that for blood thinning there are antiplatelet meds, which I am reading is aspirin for eg, and anticoagulant which is warfarin for eg but they have different effects and not interchangeable.

I'll withdraw my posts if I have made a major goof that will confuse. Its pretty hard to get any info about this.

The uk numbers seem so far away from the numbers in germany ? Its all so strange

Notrub that's an interesting theory about APLS. Seems plausible although no-one can say anything for sure.

I think it's going to be very hard to get any definite answers about such a rare event.

If something happens 1 in a million times and then it happens again the next week the rate has doubled but it's still a very low rate. Another event may then not occur for many years.

What they are doing is looking to see if this rare complication happens more often in people who have been vaccinated than in people who have not but because it's very rare that is inherently hard to say. The background rate in unvaccinated people will not be known with any certainty to compare this to.

The variation in case rates between Germany and the U.K. could be for so many reasons. It's rare enough that it could simply be chance, it could be due to increased recognition (there is a suggestion of that in the Science article that they went looking for other cases after finding one but they did not look for cases in unvaccinated people so that introduces bias), it could be a real difference due to differences in the populations vaccinated.
No-one knows and no-one will know for a long time

It is still definitely safer to be vaccinated than not vaccinated but the real debate is whether it is the safest to hold out for Pfizer or a different vaccine and avoid any risk. That's what Canada are doing.
It depends on what supplies you have in your country whether that is actually a real choice that you have. If it's to be vaccinated with AZ or not vaccinated at all then I think it's clear that not to be vaccinated over a 1 in a million chance of a rare side effect would be a bad choice.

Has anyone seen data for how many people in the uk under 55 have had the AZ vaccine ?

Thanks you for your comments CovoidOfAllHumanity (so glad you could before I must try to go to sleep) Even if something like APS is implicated it is still in v low numbers, but of course I'd rather be a woman without migraines that make me slur and feel vague, and occasional strange Covid toes right now!

So yes I agree vaccination is the better bet. If I do get any migraine afterwards, then all my DH can do, but could be prepared for, is call the GP/ 111 ASAP just in case.

Hypothetically I wonder if the difference of rollouts makes a difference. Most NHS and ECV (under 55s who had time to show side effects) here had the Pfizer. In the concerned countries they got AZ. so here we can’t hugely claim AZ hasn’t affected that age group.

It’s still a tiny chance though.

I wouldn’t worry OP. It’s a tiny chance and you know you can ask for help if you have effects for more than a few days.

as someone who had the az last week and is 25 i have been slightly concerned and also have health anxiety so you can only imagine how this news has been for me! this thread has really helped eased those worries so thank you for all the extra information :)

Thanks Covidofhumanity for your posts. I am also an anxious person but your posts have helped me to rationalise the risk.

@Anonawoman

Does anyone know if any of the cases were from the 2nd dose?

Aren’t they giving them 12 weeks apart ? If so no

I think this latest news will mean that I don’t accept the AZ vaccine. I have a family history of blood clots significant enough to prevent me from being prescribed the pill/needing additional precautionary blood thinners when I have surgery. I am 38 and in good health - as things stand I feel the vaccine is riskier for me than Covid. I’ll wait and see and make a decision once there is more evidence.

Thank you for your posts @CovoidOfAllHumanity

I have had ITP, and had a splenectomy to treat it. This put me in the CEV group and I'm under 45, had the AZ a couple of months ago.
The 'I' in ITP when I was diagnosed stood for Ideopathic =unknown cause.
My consultants at the time said they believed it was possible that I had ITP because I had not had any vaccines at all at that point, and my body over reacted due to not having enough 'baddies' to fight off (parents were anti vaxxers).

I remember a weird stat. Only 30 people had been diagnosed with it that year in the UK, and 2 thirds were in the county where I was living, and treated at the same hospital. They were trying to work out if there was a link.
I had the lowest platelet count the large hospital had ever recorded, and I was wrapped up in cotton wool, almost literally, for months while they tried to increase my platelet count enough to make the splenectomy safe.

I have had my first AZ jab, and I feel fortunate. I will take my second happily.

Shit things happen, naturally humans want to find causation, because it gives us back some control. If there was any known effect from the AZ jab, I would not have been given it, I'm certain.

Great post @PutYourBackIntoit

Shit things happen, naturally humans want to find causation, because it gives us back some control. If there was any known effect from the AZ jab, I would not have been given it, I'm certain.

I meant to post my uneducated thoughts in a similar vein on this^^.

I'm not a HCP, but my parents were. I remember my dad telling me about a patient who he always remembers, because she was a mum in her early forties, who sadly died of strep throat, which is just a big standard sore throat to most people. He couldn't understand it, as she was healthy, no underlying conditions and was young. He was fairly junior at the time, and his mentor said she was just very unlucky and must have had a 'hole' / gap in her immunity. A horrible story.

But, my point is, that these rare, tragic stories happen. We just don't hear about them all.

So, although I do take this news seriously and am a bit anxious about it, having had my first AZ dose a couple of weeks ago, the rarity of the cases makes me think, well, I could be unlucky, as putyourback was and just become very sick anyway. Add to that, that covid would probably make me quite sick, (and it isn't going away), and I'm glad I've had my jab.

Day 16 here. 37 yo, on combined pill. If anyone is interested. No bad side effects so far.

Bog standard*

Sorry if this article has been shared.it has more detail about the rare blood clot events and info on the patients that it occurred in.like their age and when the symptoms started.

Some people suffer with the same blood clotting issues when they receive heparin treatment. In my last pregnancy I was prescribed daily heparin treatment. I now realise I had 1% chance of developing these same clotting issues that are linked to the AZ. I was never told these risks to me and my baby before I started my pregnancy heparin treatment.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss !

www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-362354/v1

@littlepeas

I think this latest news will mean that I don’t accept the AZ vaccine. I have a family history of blood clots significant enough to prevent me from being prescribed the pill/needing additional precautionary blood thinners when I have surgery. I am 38 and in good health - as things stand I feel the vaccine is riskier for me than Covid. I’ll wait and see and make a decision once there is more evidence.

It may be better to speak with your consultant rather than trying to interpret your risk for yourself.

@PutYourBackIntoit

My DS platelets were at 1 on arrival at hospital and zero the next morning before he was started on immunoglobulin. Fortunately he responded really well to IG.

Thanks for your story, I find it reassuring to hear you have had AZ and been fine.

@moominmomma1234 ignorance is bliss so long as you are the one to be lucky.

1 per cent chance is high. It sounds low - but that is 1 in 100.

You really should have been told of the risk.

The fact we are never given risks/side effects and expected to blindly trust is the reason I’ve lost faith in the medical profession.

After hospital stays, myself and family members being treated/ messed around with I feel I’m healthier staying away from any interventions that are non emergency.

im 7 days post az and woke up with a headache which i’m sure is stress induced and also as i’m on my period .... will keep an eye on it over the next few days but this thread has rationalised a lot of my fear and calmed me down

@Dustyboots Yeah not sure i would of had the heparin if i had known

I had the AZ vaccine on the 15th, so 16 days ago. Last week I posted on one of these threads saying I’d felt ill ever since having it. I was helpfully told that as I was a bit dubious about the vaccine in the first place I’m imagining it.

So, for 15 days I’ve had headaches every day. Every morning I wake up with a headache. I’m constantly tired and dizzy. I’d call my GP about it if I could even get into the queue to wait, but even that’s impossible.

@littlepeas

I think this latest news will mean that I don’t accept the AZ vaccine. I have a family history of blood clots significant enough to prevent me from being prescribed the pill/needing additional precautionary blood thinners when I have surgery. I am 38 and in good health - as things stand I feel the vaccine is riskier for me than Covid. I’ll wait and see and make a decision once there is more evidence.

If you have a family history of typical blood clots then Covid is riskier for you than the vaccine according to all studies so far. It was the blood clotting of element of Covid that really caught the West by suprise when it arrived here as it had been reported as a respitory infection from China. Having the vaccine under controlled conditions is what I chose as someone with a genetic predisposition to clotting rather than risking ending up acutely sick during a wave of demand on healthcare where no one has enough time to individually take time with you and your family are not allowed into the hospital to advocate for you.

[quote Dustyboots]@moominmomma1234 ignorance is bliss so long as you are the one to be lucky.

1 per cent chance is high. It sounds low - but that is 1 in 100.

You really should have been told of the risk.

The fact we are never given risks/side effects and expected to blindly trust is the reason I’ve lost faith in the medical profession.

After hospital stays, myself and family members being treated/ messed around with I feel I’m healthier staying away from any interventions that are non emergency.[/quote]
Well said, the medical profession seem to keep changing their stance continually.. this time last year we were all told masks were useless!

@Dustyboots, sorry, but can I ask you, when you say "1% risk is high", what is it that has a 1% risk? Risk of what after what? Sorry if you already said and I missed it!