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And so it begins - with pubs?

635 replies

MistressoftheDarkSide · 24/03/2021 22:36

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

OP posts:
Sansaplans · 01/04/2021 21:13

[quote MercyBooth]AND IT ALL BECOMES CLEAR

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9420335/Planning-rules-relaxed-turn-High-Street-shops-FLATS.html[/quote]
What becomes clear? The high street has been fucked for years, may as well do something with buildings, many of which have been vacant for years.

Mydogdoesntlisten · 01/04/2021 23:10

I feel totally bullied into having a vaccine which I don't actually want. As far as I understand, those who have had it are protected from hospital admission, and death, even if there may be a risk of mild illness, so please explain what the need for vaccine passports actually is?
Another one here who will be meeting friends at home or in my garden, although I would love to go to the pub. Not going to happen though, apparently.

SamW98 · 01/04/2021 23:15

@Mydogdoesntlisten

I feel totally bullied into having a vaccine which I don't actually want. As far as I understand, those who have had it are protected from hospital admission, and death, even if there may be a risk of mild illness, so please explain what the need for vaccine passports actually is? Another one here who will be meeting friends at home or in my garden, although I would love to go to the pub. Not going to happen though, apparently.
I feel the same. I do feels like they are making it a mandatory vaccine by the back door. Its not actually compulsory but life will be made as difficult and restricted as possible unless we comply.

My friend cashed in her pension and her ISA a couple of years ago to fulfil her dream of buying her own bar/restaurant - she's now struggling to pay her bills and wondering why on earth she bothered. Even when they reopen there are so many conditions in place, it not exactly a positive social experience to be had

AlecTrevelyan006 · 01/04/2021 23:16

it's happening - there's no way back from this :(

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428665/Covid-passport-trials-begin-Boris-Johnson-set-unveil-test-scheme-venues-Monday.html

SamW98 · 01/04/2021 23:20

[quote AlecTrevelyan006]it's happening - there's no way back from this :(

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428665/Covid-passport-trials-begin-Boris-Johnson-set-unveil-test-scheme-venues-Monday.html[/quote]
It was always the plan. Life as we knew it doesn't exist any more. I'm gutted for our kids - at least we had fun while we could

EasterIssland · 01/04/2021 23:51

[quote AlecTrevelyan006]it's happening - there's no way back from this :(

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9428665/Covid-passport-trials-begin-Boris-Johnson-set-unveil-test-scheme-venues-Monday.html[/quote]
I’ve got a question and please don’t take it as a dig at you. What would you expect a theatre would do whilst we are still in the pandemic and the virus is still moving around. To continue closed ? To have social distancing in place meaning sometimes running at lost or not being able to offer some of the shows? To be crowded with no distancing in place ? I suspect (or hope) that this passport will take 3 options (at least it does in the Eu): I’ve had the virus and have antibodies / I’ve just had a pcr /. I’ve got the vaccine. So nobody should be discriminated or force to have the vaccine.

I just can’t see any way otherwise how will be able to have some of our 2019 life back and some businesses will be able to carry on.

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 23:55

@EasterIssland The Queen has had both vaccines and has been advised she didnt need to wear a mask according to a Press Preview on a news channel. But the general public are being told differently. Why do you think this is?

MercyBooth · 01/04/2021 23:56

*both doses.

ThatchersCold · 02/04/2021 02:01

Not allowed in to pubs? Tinnies at home it is then.

Not allowed to fly? Never mind, the U.K. is nice, and I have a caravan.

They can threaten whatever they like but I’m not having the vaccine.

Nappyvalley15 · 02/04/2021 04:33

Easter Island. Theatres - in the longer term we get back to normal. In the shorter term the government uses some of the vast amounts of tax payer money it is wasting on creating this biosecurity infrastructure on subsidising venues to implement social distancing.

HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur · 02/04/2021 05:33

I can only imagine the uproar there would be if the vaccinations had been done in the reverse order. This is so obviously discriminatory in a variety of ways, yet people will accept it.

The majority of people who lost their jobs were under 35, now we seem determined to exclude them from everything that might be vaguely fun. Not to mention pregnant women and others who cannot have the vaccine.

What happens about those who work in pubs? Will there be a bizarre situation where you can work in a pub/restaurant but not attend as a customer? Or are those without the vaccination going to be excluded from jobs too? Are children never allowed back? The stupidity really frustrates me (and I rarely go to the pub anyway!).

Roonerspismed · 02/04/2021 05:51

And yet again we mocked those as nutters who suggested this a year ago.

This is massive. Even if you are pro-vaccine this is a huge step in terms of our liberties.

It’s a strange old world when we might have to rely on labour for help here

Againstmachine · 02/04/2021 06:33

I have had my first shot of the vaccine, but I don't agree with compulsary by the back door.

If you look at all the freedoms we had took away over last year and the continued keep taking away them, we are accepting this due to fear. It's hard to argue when people say there seems to be a different agenda.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 08:32

Morning.

So the pilot schemes for all this Orwellian nonsense are focusing on football matches now.

" Government sources have suggested the certificates could be used by businesses as a way to relax social distancing measures inside venues. An interim report into the measure is due to be published on Monday but local residents near Wembley have already been invited to apply for tickets to attend the FA Cup semi-final on 18 April between Leicester and Southampton.

Brent council said each attender had to return a negative lateral flow Covid-19 test 24 hours before attending the game and show proof to gain entry. They will also need to take a PCR home test after the event.

Speaking on a visit to Middlesbrough, Johnson said a certificate could be used to prove a person was safe in a number of different ways – not just vaccination. He suggested businesses would welcome the idea.

“When it comes to trying to make sure that we give maximum confidence to business and to customers here in the UK, there are three things: your immunity, whether you’ve had it before, so you’ve got natural antibodies anyway; whether you’ve been vaccinated; and then, of course, whether you’ve had a test. And so those three things working together will, I think, be useful,” he said."

Pubs and football - the two things that go hand in hand and have the maximum number of guinea pigs available to test compliance.

And the references to "other businesses" - does this mean that eventually places like supermarkets will have to get involved?

I don't normally go near the phrase "Wake up sheeple" but it's very tempting right now.

If we want the cookies we just have to do as we're told.

I'm actually feeling really really uneasy about all this, particularly the way it's been handled - it's gone from "Oh, it's just an idea we're kicking about" to "we have the technology and it's going to be used in April" in 10 days! And it's so clever! The way they're doing it - introduce the idea, play ping pong with it for a while to get a bit of a handle on public opinion, while giving the impression it's all in its infancy, all the while doing a consultation and leading to a big announcement on Easter Monday!

Consultation my arse - these plans have been in place for a looong time - we've been primed for the last year, brainwashed into thinking Covid = automatically killing grannies and the vulnerable (which I know it does and am happy to observe basic sensible rules - hands, face space etc because those things genuinely do reduce the spread) Now the numbers are going down across the board and we're being let out - but the conditions attached are the gateway to the biggest drive towards complete surveillance we have seen since 9/11.

We're not scared enough of terrorism now, so this is a legitimate stick to beat us with.

And so much of it makes no sense! Social distancing and masks I can pretty much accept - that's the space bit - fair enough. But what they're saying is that can be eased in these big venues if you engage with an app, have tests, and have a vaccine.

As time goes on will we all have to have a test every day just to go about our legitimate business?

It is gas-lighting - yesterday they brought out that piece that suggested less than 25% of people were testing or isolating with symptoms, and in the same article a bit further down it said that other polls showed overall compliance had increased - so which is it?

I'm in the die hard group now where I would rather forgo the pub experience thank you! It'll be a rigmarole to organise, there will be disturbances when people are denied access because something doesn't go their way, and under the updated guidelines I've seen going to the pub is going to be a rather joyless experience and it will be hell for the employees who are now cast in the role of policing it all.

I've just discussed this with my 26 y/o DS,who is, like me is "alternative". He brought up some good points.

Festivals. DS was caught up in the Boomtown fiasco a few years ago when they introduced their electronic / QR code entry systems. He was in the queue for nearly 9 hours with thousands of other people - because the tech didn't work consistently, with no access to water and no toilets. If football matches are going to be subject to checking tests, are festivals also? Boomtown has had a previous capacity of nearly 80000 - I can't find a reliable answer on Google as to how many tickets were available this year, but it is sold out apparently. It is being touted as a smaller festival, but with things placed closer together now, so more potential density and how the heck do you encourage social distancing at a weekend long party? Are they now going to have to make entry conditional on getting tests in advance?

Thinking further, if this volume of people are all trying to get a test in the 24 hours before a big event, do we have the testing infrastructure and capacity to provide that? I mean there's a growth industry in the disaster capitalism model right there.Will working in the test and track and trace industry be touted as the solution to unemployment issues?

And then there is our towns massive airshow - while I accept that last year despite our town's population doubling leading to a major incident being declared, there seemed to be little evidence of a spike in local infections, I can't see how they can countenance an event on this scale not being subject to similar restrictions as other big events, if keeping the virus at bay now depends on all this.

And the technology - do we have the infrastructure to cope with surges of people all trying to do things via apps / online at once?

Never mind the principles involved in all this, in a world where already if computer says no, it can take an age to sort out errors, I can't believe that suddenly everything is going to be tickety boo. And there are holes in the mobile phone networks - what happens if there's a sudden outage and even though you have your smartphone proof, you can't access it because you can't get online?

There is so much to consider here, so much and all before June 21st.

And we're so giddy with relief at the easing of lockdown restrictions, we will rationalise and comply.

I've never felt quite so over a barrel in my life.

OP posts:
Chimeraforce · 02/04/2021 08:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Kenshi · 02/04/2021 08:52

The arrogance of this government is on another level.

carrythecan · 02/04/2021 08:58

@AlecTrevelyan006

New rules to help pubs, cafes and restaurants reopen outdoors safely in England on 12 April have sparked anger from industry groups.

All customers will have to sign in on entry, not just one member of the group like before. It is also unclear whether payment at the bar will be permitted.

UK Hospitality said it would burden struggling pubs and staff and risk customers deciding not to go out.

The BBC has contacted the Cabinet Office for a comment.

Under the new guidance, every customer aged 16 and over will have to check in to NHS test and trace before entering a venue, or give their contact details to staff.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56608632

Madness! Where is the opposition????

This is completely unworkable, even if we wanted to do it, without adding more staff to ensure this happens. We have a venue that has a lot of outdoor seating next to our car park. Taking the details for one person in a group was fairly easy, as we took it when they booked or when they arrived and enquired about a table. But what typically happens is that most of the group will arrive separately at different times and go and sit down with their friends without entering the building. So are we are supposed to have employees who will just be watching people arrive and then go and get their details or make them scan the NHS app?

I am so angry that we have done so much already to make our venue safe and we were expected things to get easier when we re-open this summer, not harder. We have already had to employ more waiting on staff in order to comply with table service etc. But we can't really charge more (.ie. in line with a restaurant rather than a pub) as customers have a limit on what they expect to pay.

As for vaccine passports, that really would be the final nail in the coffin for our industry.

Iootraw1 · 02/04/2021 09:06

Why does anyone think that pubs who choose to go down the road of insisting customers are vaccinated would then be able to open up to full capacity? We’ve had it said to us over and over again by boris’s crew and sage that having the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission of it and that no one even after both jabs are 100% protected.
Therefore apart from insisting on it to promote themselves as a ‘safe’ venue and protect their staff and themselves as landlords from Covid can’t see any further benefit to them. On the down side they will have to turn away a lot of younger customers ( I’m going to include myself in that category because at 46 I haven’t been offered an appointment for my first vaccination yet and neither has my husband at 47). So there we are I will be seeking out pubs who don’t enforce this ‘rule’,

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 09:18

The stated carrot for the industry is that with all these measures in place then social distancing can be eased, which I agree is at odds with the message that while the vaccines apparently do reduce transmission to varying degrees depending on vaccine as you say it is not 100% the magic bullet, it reduces all the risks not eliminates them. Which is probably impossible.

Pardon my French but it's a massive clusterfuck.

OP posts:
MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 09:24

And the timing of all this is very clever.

It's been a drip feed over the last ten days, with the bomb being dropped on Easter Monday I believe.

So after a weekend where many people will be maximising the opportunity to do a bit of within new guidelines / rules socialising, just how many people will be focused on sitting down for the PMs address to responsibly keep up with it all? Are they really keen to break their hopefully happy mood with yet another dose of "We're nearly there BUT......." ?

OP posts:
Neron · 02/04/2021 10:14

When people used to say it was a 'plandemic' I wondered what on earth they were talking about.
The more that is coming out, the more I can see their point. This was never about a virus. It's about controlling the population.

IloveJKRowling · 02/04/2021 10:21

I’m not against vaccine passports but only once everyone has been offered their first dose here in the UK

This is still a while off and even further on until two doses, and then we have vaccine resistant variants that will still probably be around.

It seems crazy and also - at this point - seems like it would massively hurt the likely revenue of businesses that desperately need it if only over 50s are allowed.

That's before you get to the ethical side of effectively barring all vulnerable people who cannot have vaccines from a wide range of services. It's really extremely dodgy territory.

I don't think vaccine passports are a very good idea. Knowing our government they'd farm out running it to some mate and they'd be shit anyway, with lots of forgeries etc, and it would mostly be a wealth transfer exercise from normal people to the 1%.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 02/04/2021 10:23

@Neron

Oh yes.

I like analysing "conspiracy theories". I obviously wouldn't buy into the Queen = lizard thing, and have rejected the 5G stuff and most of the wild ones. But creeping state control is one of my interests, along with how propaganda works - follow the money and disaster capitalism particularly fascinate me.I'm aware of media bias, fakenews and tend to deep dive things with a grain of truth in them.

I didn't want to believe that TPTB could be quite so venal, but what an opportunity - taking advantage of a moral health issue to the max because any resistance implies selfishness and that you want people to die. Perfect storm. It's chilling.

OP posts:
IloveJKRowling · 02/04/2021 10:25

I hope this is a situation where the populace will just say no. If everyone refuses to do it, there's not a lot they can do.

Businesses aren't going to be keen on a situation where most of their customers refuse to use their business.

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