And so it begins - with pubs?

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

Some rather good points raised in the article to be fair

@SamW98 DH and I will have to go to separate screenings
Actually that might work best, he could go and see something with big explosions and car chases while I watch some arthouse wank.

*disclaimer, lighthearted, I realise that the non-vaccinated screenings would be open to all.

This is sinister. Why just pubs though? People meet in other settings. Not that I would want to show any sort of paper to get in anywhere in the UK. What will be next? Benefit sanctions if you don't have the vaccine? How long will this shit show go on for? Will we still have to provide proof of vaccination in 1 year? 5 years?
It is starting to feel like a dystopian nightmare.

It's not really any different from that period in the 90's where you had smoking and non-smoking venues - in some cases you had rooms for both at the same establishment.

People can then freely choose what risk they wish to expose themselves to.

If there's a market for unvaccinated rooms/pubs then they will exist. If there isn't they won't. Isn't capitalism wonderful!

@SamW98

Vaccine Apartheid

How disgusting and what a sign of white, middle-class privilege that you even think to compare a situation where an individual chooses to believe in morons on YT over medical professionals and so self limits their choices in life, and one where a person's skin colour, dooms them to life as a second class citizen.

My conspiracy theorist friend predicted much of this a year ago and I thought he was an utter wack job... I've completely changed my view 🤔

Is this a step too far?

I think everyone should have the jab BUT forcing people like this...? Something off about it.

Hmm there is something about this that actually makes the vaccine less appealing.

Social engineering potentially, dressed up as oh so reasonable free choice market drive capitalism.

Classic divide, rule, bread and circuses tactics, also with the moral imperative to "do the right thing" for national health.

The perfect storm.

[quote MaxNormal]@Belladonna12 fortunately skilled clinicians are able to recognise complex cases and not just go by the general guidelines, which is a relief for those of us with complex medical backgrounds.[/quote]
The Green book isn't a "general guideline" . It is detailed vaccine guidance and updated very regularly. There is no mention there or in the EMA or FDA documents that some people with "complex" medical conditions won't be able to have it. Your constant attempt to insult me to win the argument is a bit desperate. You clearly just don't want the vaccine which is your prerogative but stop lying about your reasons.

www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/lifestyle/food-and-drink/pub-covid-passports-ridiculous-and-discriminatory-say-peterborough-pub-bosses-3178379

Doesn't seem a popular idea in Peterborough

A lot of this stuff is just floating ideas, certainly not intended or firm policy. Pubs won't want this at all and neither will the general public.

@Belladonna12 and here we have it:

You clearly just don't want the vaccine which is your prerogative but stop lying about your reasons

I wish I was lying about my reasons. I despeately wish that I could have it at the same time as DH and not have this crippling worry about what this is going to mean for me, and for our lives, longer term.

Since you've called me a liar I don't think there's any point in us engaging further with each other.

Found this about using a mix of the vaccines
www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccination-programme-guidance-for-healthcare-practitioners

Starts around page 12 iirc

The book doesn't say specifically don't give if you have x,y or z. However, it advices caution
www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-the-green-book-chapter-14a

@Ferrylights

My conspiracy theorist friend predicted much of this a year ago and I thought he was an utter wack job... I've completely changed my view 🤔

Yep I know a few who said this and I shrugged it off as wild theory, now it really has got me thinking 🤔

[quote MaxNormal]@Belladonna12 and here we have it:

You clearly just don't want the vaccine which is your prerogative but stop lying about your reasons

I wish I was lying about my reasons. I despeately wish that I could have it at the same time as DH and not have this crippling worry about what this is going to mean for me, and for our lives, longer term.

Since you've called me a liar I don't think there's any point in us engaging further with each other.[/quote]
How would being exempt from vaccination cause you and your DH crippling worry? It would mean that if people were required to be vaccinated to go somewhere you would be able to show your exemption and would probably just have to provide a negative test. Could it be that no medic knows about your complex medical condition and won't be able to corroborate the fact that you are exempt?

Oh just give it a fucking rest. Because there's no exemption mechanism in place or under discussion as of yet and the ongoing uncertainty is miserable.

Or should I say it's because I'm a lying, fabricating anti-vaxxer?

@Ferrylights

My conspiracy theorist friend predicted much of this a year ago and I thought he was an utter wack job... I've completely changed my view 🤔

I was sent an email last March with a timetable of what was planned. I rolled my eyes and thought 'yes ok' at the time but I saved it to look back

Its not completely accurate but its quite shocking how much of what was considered conspiracy theory has actually happened or looks like happening over the next few months

@Ferrylights

My conspiracy theorist friend predicted much of this a year ago and I thought he was an utter wack job... I've completely changed my view 🤔

A conspiracy is where a bunch of people secretly plan to do something and don't tell anyone. This is exactly the opposite lol.

It was blindingly obvious to anyone in medicine, 12 months ago that if a viable vaccine was created, society would be under enormous pressure to take it.

I predicted airplane travel would be the first to make vaccination compulsory - I fully expected that the UK would lag behind the rest of the world when it came to requiring vaccination elsewhere, and that indeed may still be the case.

Until the virus is eradicated (which may never happen) increasingly around the world, those who choose NOT to take the vaccine will be marginalised by their own hand.

You clearly just don't want the vaccine which is your prerogative but stop lying about your reasons.

How can you call someone a liar when you have no idea about their medical history?
I'd really hoped that this place had moved on from this attitude but it seems not.

I've also been advised against the vaccine. The "good" thing over the past several months is that in hospitals it's been the doctors taking patients for their tests. at least on my ward. And it's given us patients time to talk more with them as your walking down freezing corridors.

This idea is likely to escalate over time, even if SARS-COV-2 sails into the sunset and is no longer a threat, what's to stop the powers that be adding flu to the passport, or something else, if they feel like it? "We're having a bad flu season so we want people to feel protected and know others have had the flu jab before entering our premises".

There's no telling where this may lead, but it's not anywhere good.

@notrub because they’ve decided not to be vaccinated against something that would, more than likely, be an incredibly mild disease for them and/or that they might already be immune to?

@canigooutyet

You clearly just don't want the vaccine which is your prerogative but stop lying about your reasons.

How can you call someone a liar when you have no idea about their medical history?
I'd really hoped that this place had moved on from this attitude but it seems not.

I've also been advised against the vaccine. The "good" thing over the past several months is that in hospitals it's been the doctors taking patients for their tests. at least on my ward. And it's given us patients time to talk more with them as your walking down freezing corridors.

I don't need to know their entire medical history if the poster said that they didn't have one of the conditions mentioned in the green book or product information. If that is the case then it is very unlikely that it is contraindicated for them. It also seems a bit of a coincidence that they have complex medical condition that isn't mentioned in the literature considering all the other anti-vaccine and anti-lockdown posts from that poster over the last year. If you genuinely couldn't have the vaccine wouldn't you prefer it of other people did?

@CrunchyCarrot

This idea is likely to escalate over time, even if SARS-COV-2 sails into the sunset and is no longer a threat, what's to stop the powers that be adding flu to the passport, or something else, if they feel like it? "We're having a bad flu season so we want people to feel protected and know others have had the flu jab before entering our premises".

There's no telling where this may lead, but it's not anywhere good.

Yes how dare a government act in the collective interest of its citizens!

Next they might even decide to offer a nationalised health care system. Or welfare for the needy or...

We demand the right to be savages.

[quote bumbleymummy]@notrub because they’ve decided not to be vaccinated against something that would, more than likely, be an incredibly mild disease for them and/or that they might already be immune to?[/quote]
Your attitude reminds me of those who defend driving around drunk..."I'm a safe driver. I can handle my alcohol. These laws are meant for rubbish drivers who only drink in their birthdays..."

Actually thinking about it that's a far more sensible excuse than any anti-vax logic.

If you genuinely couldn't have the vaccine wouldn't you prefer it of other people did?

I'm not anti vax. DH will be having the vaccine as soon as it's his turn. I'm all for anyone who wants/needs the vaccine having it.

I certainly would never expect someone take something they don't want on my behalf, I find the idea abhorrent.